Did Eve have sex with Lucifer in the Garden of Eden?

a reply to: spy66

Well you do know that Eden was west of Nod, because the Bible says the Nod was east of Eden...

a reply to: Iscool

Everyone knows the bible. It's the most sold book in history, right?

a reply to: spy66

Well sounds like many men and women were on earth before Adam came into the story.

Was the basic genetic template not mostly the same with Adam and Eve as it was with the men and women who came before them?

And why does it matter if God created Adam before Eve, or if Eve was created from Adam?

Hey thanks for pointing that out fat kid, Nod, where Cain found refuge after killing Abel, east of Eden.

Cain and Abel fought on earth, ya, not heaven?

Oh well I'm gonna go nod off now...

a reply to: InachMarbank

How can you rule out Eden is on earth if you already concluded you can't know where it is???

It can be ruled out because as soon as Adam was cast out Lord God put up a flaming sword to the east which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. The tree of life is in this garden.

Where is this flaming sword on earth?

The other Clue is, why is Eden given the name: Eden Cherubims?

What does Eden Cherubims mean?

The third Clue is: Why was Adam cast out of the garden and back to the Earth from which he was taken, if Eden is already on Earth?
If Eden was created on Earth. Adam would have just been cast out of the garden created eastward in Eden. That means Adam would still be in Eden. Just not in the one formed to the east by Lord God. Remember Lord God formed a garden to the east in Eden. That is where he put Adam.

If we live in the garden we should be able to see the flaming swords preventing us from entering the garden to the east.

The last Clue.

God never fomred this garden on Earth in genesis Chapter 1, nor spoke of it. God rested on the seventh day.

When God rested Lord God started his work. And that work is mentioned in Genesisi Chapter 2 and so on.

a reply to: spy66

I read it as Cherubims, or angels, and a flaming sword are stationed at the east of Eden.

I'm not sure where the angels and this sword could be. If it was obvious, it wouldn't make a good guard would it?

If Eden is in heaven, why does its way of life need to be guarded from other heavenly dwellers?

So man sent forth from Eden to til ground from which he was taken. Nothing explicit or implicit about heaven or earth in that statement that I can see.

So God formed heaven and earth, and no mention of Eden. Then Lord God comes in to form Eden. That still leaves it a 50/50 guess whether heaven or earth.

C'mon. Fat kid already resolved the argument for us.

a reply to: InachMarbank

I read it as Cherubims, or angels, and a flaming sword are stationed at the east of Eden.

Well, how does Eden Cherubims end up being angels? Adam was cast out from Eden Cherubims. That is specifically mentioned in verse 24.

from verse 24 capter 3.

and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life

This flaming sword was put in Place at the east end of the garden so that Adam could not Return. And so that the woman could be protected from the ways of man.



The garden of Eden can not be heaven. What heaven is, is described in genesisi Chapter 1. And there is nothing in genesis Chapter 1 that even hints at it being anything like the garden of Eden.

The other thing is. The serpent was never cast out of the garden of Eden. The serpent is still there, so how can Eden be anything good, or anything like heaven?

Eden Cherubims is not a good Place to be. The serpent is there and so is Lord God.

Just because the tree of life is there does not mean Eden Cherubims is heaven. The tree of life in the garden of Eden Cherubims is the woman (Eve)
She is the bride that will come Down from heaven (The sky). There is a story in great details about this as well.

If the woman is in Eden and Lord God and the serpen is there. I would not exspect the woman to be much merciful or kind at all.
God is merciful, but Lord God is not.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Excerpt from The Urantia Book, Paper 75 - The default of Adam and Eve

(www.urantia.org...)


3. The Temptation of Eve

75:3.1 (841.1) Adam had just finished his first one hundred years on earth when Serapatatia, upon the death of his father, came to the leadership of the western or Syrian confederation of the Nodite tribes. Serapatatia was a brown-tinted man, a brilliant descendant of the onetime chief of the Dalamatia commission on health mated with one of the master female minds of the blue race of those distant days. All down through the ages this line had held authority and wielded a great influence among the western Nodite tribes.

75:3.2 (841.2) Serapatatia had made several visits to the Garden and had become deeply impressed with the righteousness of Adam’s cause. And shortly after assuming the leadership of the Syrian Nodites, he announced his intention of establishing an affiliation with the work of Adam and Eve in the Garden. The majority of his people joined him in this program, and Adam was cheered by the news that the most powerful and the most intelligent of all the neighboring tribes had swung over almost bodily to the support of the program for world improvement; it was decidedly heartening. And shortly after this great event, Serapatatia and his new staff were entertained by Adam and Eve in their own home.

75:3.3 (841.3) Serapatatia became one of the most able and efficient of all of Adam’s lieutenants. He was entirely honest and thoroughly sincere in all of his activities; he was never conscious, even later on, that he was being used as a circumstantial tool of the wily Caligastia.

75:3.4 (841.4) Presently, Serapatatia became the associate chairman of the Edenic commission on tribal relations, and many plans were laid for the more vigorous prosecution of the work of winning the remote tribes to the cause of the Garden.

75:3.5 (841.5) He held many conferences with Adam and Eve — especially with Eve — and they talked over many plans for improving their methods. One day, during a talk with Eve, it occurred to Serapatatia that it would be very helpful if, while awaiting the recruiting of large numbers of the violet race, something could be done in the meantime immediately to advance the needy waiting tribes. Serapatatia contended that, if the Nodites, as the most progressive and co-operative race, could have a leader born to them of part origin in the violet stock, it would constitute a powerful tie binding these peoples more closely to the Garden. And all of this was soberly and honestly considered to be for the good of the world since this child, to be reared and educated in the Garden, would exert a great influence for good over his father’s people.

75:3.6 (841.6) It should again be emphasized that Serapatatia was altogether honest and wholly sincere in all that he proposed. He never once suspected that he was playing into the hands of Caligastia and Daligastia. Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results — something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.

75:3.7 (841.7) For more than five years these plans were secretly matured. At last they had developed to the point where Eve consented to have a secret conference with Cano, the most brilliant mind and active leader of the near-by colony of friendly Nodites. Cano was very sympathetic with the Adamic regime; in fact, he was the sincere spiritual leader of those neighboring Nodites who favored friendly relations with the Garden.

75:3.8 (842.1) The fateful meeting occurred during the twilight hours of the autumn evening, not far from the home of Adam. Eve had never before met the beautiful and enthusiastic Cano — and he was a magnificent specimen of the survival of the superior physique and outstanding intellect of his remote progenitors of the Prince’s staff. And Cano also thoroughly believed in the righteousness of the Serapatatia project. (Outside of the Garden, multiple mating was a common practice.)

75:3.9 (842.2) Influenced by flattery, enthusiasm, and great personal persuasion, Eve then and there consented to embark upon the much-discussed enterprise, to add her own little scheme of world saving to the larger and more far-reaching divine plan. Before she quite realized what was transpiring, the fatal step had been taken. It was done.

a reply to: spy66

These 2 sentences mean the same thing right?

He placed Cherubims and a flaming sword at the east.

He placed at the east Cherubims and a flaming sword.

Ok so you're saying Eden is not in heaven, right?

If Eden is not in heaven, then it must be earth, right? What other geographies are there to choose from?

How can Eve be the tree of life? Are you saying the tree of life is a person? So when Eve ate from the tree of life was she getting knowledge from another person? And when she got that knowledge did she become another tree of life? So tree of life is not a literal tree, is that what you're saying?

On a different note, recently I was wondering, geographically, if heaven and earth is the shape of a diamond; and around the diamond is a container; the shape of the container around the pavilion (earth/below) is like an evergreen tree; the shape of the container around the crown (heaven/above) is like a sword. But, meh, call me crazy...

a reply to: InachMarbank

These 2 sentences mean the same thing right?

He placed Cherubims and a flaming sword at the east.

He placed at the east Cherubims and a flaming sword.

This is what the text say:

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

What the text state is the the flaming sword were placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims. Why the text is made this way is odd. Its like there is text (information missing) to make this point Clear.

Do you read it differently?

Ok so you're saying Eden is not in heaven, right?

Correct, Eden is not thee heaven. Lord God made Eden Cherubims somewhere in heaven (Our universe), but Eden is not heaven. Eden must be a physical existing Place somewhere sinse Lord God Placed flaming swords to protect the tree of life.

If Eden Cherubims did not exist there would be no need for the flaming swords (protection/isolation).

Remember God created the heaven and thee Earth. Heaven is more then just the happy Place. Heaven is also Our expanding universe, that is described in genesis Chapter 1.

The light God formed in verse 3 didnt not happen without the firmament. Light would need a Source to emitt light. The firmament is Our expanding universe. It is also called heaven. If you think of the Big Bang theory when you read Genesis Chapter one, you might understand what i am hinting at.

Verse 3 and verse 6 are linked to the event when God said; let there be light. When God said let there be light God actually formed the firmament. And it is the firmament that emitt the light we read about in verse 3.

How can Eve be the tree of life? Are you saying the tree of life is a person? So when Eve ate from the tree of life was she getting knowledge from another person? And when she got that knowledge did she become another tree of life? So tree of life is not a literal tree, is that what you're saying?

Yes the tree of life is a person. It is the woman. Even Adam states this by saying that Eve is the mother of all living.

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

You should know that Eve was the last living thing Lord God formed in the Garden. So she could not have been the mother of anything in the garden. Lord God formed Adam and all the beasts; even the tree of knowledge of good and evil, And the tree of life. So why did Adam Call his wife the mother of all living, when she was not?

He called Eve the mother of all living because Eve will bring forth the New life in the garden of Eden. But it will not be of Adam. The New life in Eden will come from the beast we Call the serpent.

On a different note, recently I was wondering, geographically, if heaven and earth is the shape of a diamond; and around the diamond is a container; the shape of the container around the pavilion (earth/below) is like an evergreen tree; the shape of the container around the crown (heaven/above) is like a sword. But, meh, call me crazy...

But its not right. So we have to look at this in a different perspective

The tree of life is like the tree of evolution of species. Lord God is forming he's own tree of life in the garden of Eden With the help of Eve. Just like God did when he formed man as male and female on Earth. Its just that Lord God is fomring a hybrid human species.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: InachMarbank

How can you rule out Eden is on earth if you already concluded you can't know where it is???

It can be ruled out because as soon as Adam was cast out Lord God put up a flaming sword to the east which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. The tree of life is in this garden.

Where is this flaming sword on earth?

The other Clue is, why is Eden given the name: Eden Cherubims?




What does Eden Cherubims mean?

The third Clue is: Why was Adam cast out of the garden and back to the Earth from which he was taken, if Eden is already on Earth?
If Eden was created on Earth. Adam would have just been cast out of the garden created eastward in Eden. That means Adam would still be in Eden. Just not in the one formed to the east by Lord God. Remember Lord God formed a garden to the east in Eden. That is where he put Adam.

If we live in the garden we should be able to see the flaming swords preventing us from entering the garden to the east.

The last Clue.

God never fomred this garden on Earth in genesis Chapter 1, nor spoke of it. God rested on the seventh day.

When God rested Lord God started his work. And that work is mentioned in Genesisi Chapter 2 and so on.

Following your thoughts....it means "Adam" is not created by the true God. Even the creation story is different when comparing Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. The order doesn't match up.

So, my question is?.....who is "Lord god"? Is he a son of the Most High God? Or, is he the usurper? Whatever he is, he's not the real God that Jesus showed us. Their character's are completely opposed to one another.

Christianity (mainly), does not understand this.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Following your thoughts....it means "Adam" is not created by the true God.

Well there are two posebilities.

1. Lord God might have formed Adam (male) from the dust on the ground Or.

2. Lord God took/abducted Adam from Earth and brought him to Eden.

In Genesis Chapter 3 verse 23 it is mentioned that Adam was taken through this verse:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

If Lord God formed Adam from the Dust on the ground. Adam would be a hybrid human, Adam would be a copy.

So, my question is?.....who is "Lord god"? Is he a son of the Most High God? Or, is he the usurper? Whatever he is, he's not the real God that Jesus showed us. Their character's are completely opposed to one another.

Lord God is the imposter God. And the creator of knowledge of good and evil. Lord God was the serpent who fooled the woman. All this is right there in Chapter 2 and 3.

The Garden of Eden was nothing but a set up to trick Adam and Eve. But it also serves an other purpose. It creates a flase religion because adam was sent to Earth to spread knowledge.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: DeathSlayer
There is no suggestion in the text that the serpent's children are children by Eve. Why are you dragging sex into that relationship, anyway? You're not a Moonie, are you? Because "Eve committed adultery with Satan" is Moonie teaching. It's on p79 of my copy of Divine Principle (don't ask me how I acquired that copy. It's a long story).

As I said, the verse I quoted is a very literal account of the relationship betwen the snake and the human species. I think we ought to take its meaning from that.

Ok but women having sex with the other fallen angles after the fall is bible.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Following your thoughts....it means "Adam" is not created by the true God.

Well there are two posebilities.

1. Lord God might have formed Adam (male) from the dust on the ground Or.

2. Lord God took/abducted Adam from Earth and brought him to Eden.

In Genesis Chapter 3 verse 23 it is mentioned that Adam was taken through this verse:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

If Lord God formed Adam from the Dust on the ground. Adam would be a hybrid human, Adam would be a copy.

So, my question is?.....who is "Lord god"? Is he a son of the Most High God? Or, is he the usurper? Whatever he is, he's not the real God that Jesus showed us. Their character's are completely opposed to one another.

Lord God is the imposter God. And the creator of knowledge of good and evil. Lord God was the serpent who fooled the woman. All this is right there in Chapter 2 and 3.

The Garden of Eden was nothing but a set up to trick Adam and Eve. But it also serves an other purpose. It creates a flase religion because adam was sent to Earth to spread knowledge.

I pretty much agree with you. Whatever happened between Genesis 1 and 2....it wasn't good, nor do the chronological events of creation match.
Plus, the "Lord God" is a temperamental, blood thirsty, misogynistic. jerk.

a reply to: spy66

You read it as the garden's full name is Eden Cherubims.

I read it as Cherubims are at the east of Eden.

Maybe Cherubims is capitalized because it is a name of a garden, so I won't dismiss your reading.

But reading it your way seems like improper syntax.

You don't need the word, and, if reading it your way.

It should just read, placed at Eden Cherubims a flaming sword

But since it reads, placed at Eden Cherubims and a flaming sword, I read it as Cherubims and a flaming sword are placed at Eden.

Ok so you say Eden is in heaven, a locality within heaven, if you will, but I'm more inclined to suspect Eden is on earth.

If the land of Nod is east of Eden, is Nod in heaven too?

Oh the expanding universe theory. Heard that one came out in 1929. Whatever. Ya the good sun's gonna turn earth to ashes one day too, isn't it? Doesn't sound like a good sun hiding behind the tree.

Lord God sounds like the borg from Star Trek. "I command thee to assimilate"

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

How can you tell which God Jesus is on the side of?

a reply to: spy66

Have you ever considered Lord God, the lesser, is the ruler of God, the greater master?

Just look at the story of Job, which it seems to me, is a bet about the backbone of Job between 2 Gods...

a reply to: InachMarbank



In genesis Chapter 2 verse 8 It is specified where Lord God planted the garden.

And Lord God planted the garden eastward in Eden. In Chapter 3 we also get the name of this garden.

If the land of Nod is east of Eden, is Nod in heaven too?

No. The land of Nod is on Earth. If Nod was just to the east of Eden we should be able to see the burning swords.
Eden has never been spoken of or been observed by any other then Adam. The woman Adam called Eve in the garden of Eden is not the same Eve we read about in the next Chapters. There are no reccords of Eve ever mentioning Eden or that Adam did.

Until this day, no one have found any indications that Eden existed on Earth.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Whatever happened between Genesis 1 and 2....it wasn't good, nor do the chronological events of creation match.
Plus, the "Lord God" is a temperamental, blood thirsty, misogynistic. jerk.

That is correct. That is how i see it to. You have to have a prity good imagination to potray Lord God as a merciful and fair God.