In historic break, Britain gives formal notice it is leaving the European Union

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Lol, wouldn't surprise me!

To be fair though there are some pretty unsavoury types in both camps here, remain and leave voters.

Of course there are, they're politicians.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Of course
...ATS can get a bit heated at times as well such is the gulf between leave and remain.
I hope now the exit process is actually underway both camps can build bridges, and work for a prosperous sovereign UK.

originally posted by: eriktheawful

I'd have to say ignore those who decry the UK leaving the EU. Most of those that fear monger that are Globalists. UK leaving the EU is not part of the Globalist agenda.

I wish that were true. Theresa May is intent on privatising the little infrastructure we have left. The Chinese are taking over one of our rail operators in the Summer. The French own one of our electricity operators. Thames Water is owned by foreign money.

She's also inviting foreign investors to spend money on property and land in the UK.

Same schitt, different shovel.

a reply to: elysiumfire

Glass houses and all that, Elysium.

Yes, we are net contributors to the EU, even after we factor the billions they spend on keeping our regions afloat. Fingers crossed that Theresa May will spend the same kind of money across the country, eh?

But if you factor in the advantage to British and British-based businesses, we were up on the deal. What will the future hold? We don't know because Theresa May and her cronies haven't told us what their plan B is.

You confuse being masters of our own destiny with having leverage. We had plenty of leverage in the EU and beyond before 2010. David Cameron threw most of that away, with the support of non-dom billionaires who run the London Media Bubble. The same non-dom billionaires who funded the Leave campaign.

We have little leverage now. We're a middling market in a world of trading blocs. Yes, it is possible to punch above our weight but who, in Parliament and public life generally, do we have to make it happen? Boris Johnson?

We got sovereignty back? We never lost our sovereignty. Look at the way different countries implement EU regs. Its just that our governments and their pals in the media found it easier and more convenient to blame the EU than accept it was their decision. Funnily enough, that doesn't happen in the rest of the EU.

On the matter of sovereignty, Parliament is sovereign. Constitution for Dummies page 1. So why are is the London Media Bubble so upset that Parliament gets to scrutinise the leaving negotiations? Something fishy there.

As for being able to trade with the rest of the world...what were we doing before? We were doing under the aegis of the EU, true, but David Davis has no plans to change the way we operate. Heck, he even said today that we would still be bound by the European Court of Justice. Add that to the £350 million a week we won't have for the NHS, the equivocation over immigration and the crystallisation of EU regs into UK law as part of the Great Repeal Bill and you have to ask what is really going to change.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a remainer or a remoaner. It's just that we're unlikely to get most of what we thought we were voting for. Everything from interest rates and NHS budgets to the way our parks are run and how much schools have to spend on pencils will still be run by unelected bureaucrats. The government will still carry on selling the country to its pals in the City. House prices and rental prices will stay high. Our schools and hospitals will be even more stretched - £1 billion in NHS cuts announced earlier this week!

All we've done is hand TPTB the keys to the kingdom.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You don't feel happy for the British who voted for it?

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

It is my understanding the Chinese takeover was well under way before May came to power. Am I wrong in that understanding? If I am not wrong, why you are suggesting that May engineered that move? Same goes for your foreign owned utility companies. That all happened under agreements with the EU and it's partners.

a reply to: raymundoko

Should I? I don't agree with the decision and think it was very shortsighted. Why would I be happy for them?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Explain why you think it was short sighted please so I can understand your viewpoint. I read all your posts in this thread so you have definitely not explained why you feel that way. You've said a lot of "it will be bad, sky will fall, wait till Scotland and Ireland leave", but what do you think that means exactly. Explain to me exactly why you think they are "cutting of their nose".

Edit: I tend to agree with economic experts.

Here as well

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: EvillerBob
I appreciate your conviction that Britain will fail miserably, as much as I appreciated your conviction that Hillary would win in a landslide.

I have not conviction about this, and thinking I do is dishonest. At no point have I expressed that I am absolutely sure this will fail. I just don't like the road Britain is looking down and am glad I'm not on it.

Way to make the thread about Hillary though. *eye roll*

He was right though wasn't he...?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Good, I hope other countries entangled in the EU's grasp also break free. At one point in time, the EU served a much needed purpose. Now it is nothing but a pay to play scheme filled with bureaucracy that hurt the member nations.

Let the EU die, give power back to individual countries!

a reply to: Aegeus

Countries can choose to leave if their people wish it.
I suspect the EU will try to spank naughty Britain in the divorce to deter any other dissent, but meh, so be it.
The price of sovereignty has never been cheap.

a reply to: raymundoko

Both those articles say that leaving will not be an economic disaster, however the general consensus is that we will be worse off. Maybe a little, maybe a lot.

It will very much depend on decisions made by the government and BoE over the next few years. That does not fill me with confidence.

Personally i think the wrong decision was made not because of the economic implications, but because of the the loss of rights and benefits being in the EU brings.

I think in time we will regret leaving.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Which rights and benefits do you see being lost specifically, and why do you believe they will?

The right to rock up in a European country and get a job in a sector where they have no shortage of workers will be lost, of course, same as you can't just turn up in Australia.

If you are talking about rights lost after the repeal bill converts all EU law to UK, then that is pure conjecture.

I'm genuinely interested, which specific rights and benefits do we know will be lost that will cause hardship or challenges?

a reply to: grainofsand

You have mentioned one of the key ones in your post. The right to work and live in the EU.

a reply to: ScepticScot

You'll be able to live there if you can fund yourself, or if you have an employment skill they have unfilled vacancies for. Same as the rest of the world.
First world problem I say, if you have a skill to offer an EU country then you will be unaffected aside from extra paperwork.

a reply to: grainofsand

So we will go from having a fundamental right to being allowed to stay based on whatever rules individual countries apply. Fairly big difference.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yep, I expected that when I voted leave.
It is a fair exchange for sovereignty of nationhood to me.
No different to the rest of the world, if you can fund yourself or have a skill to get yourself a work visa what's the problem?
Do you just want the right for unskilled people to work anywhere in the world, even when the destination country doesn't need them?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I'll switch it around as well, I'm mates with a guy who runs a cafe/bar for Brits in a Spanish resort. He is invested in business and contributes to the Spanish economy, he laughs at any thoughts his business will be closed down due to visa issues.

He employs Spanish and British workers but has always said to me if I ever wanted a working holiday then just say the word.
Why should I have the right to steal work from local seasonal workers just because I'm British. He is not struggling to find workers, he just knows my UK banter will get more British package tour tourists coming back the next day than the Spanish staff.

a reply to: grainofsand

The UK already had sovereignty.

I think within Europe it was far better for people to be able to live where they want based on their ability to find a job or fund themselves, rather than based on arbitrary points systems or the whims of government of the day.

I like the fact that i and my kids had that as a right.

a reply to: ScepticScot

No, the UK did not have sovereignty.
Sovereignty is control over a nation by government. Parliament and judiciary are subservient to the EU until the exit happens.

How you can dispute the sovereignty issue I can't imagine.
Please do explain such a bizarre assertion.

*edit*
And if you have a skill to offer the EU nations then you'll still be able to move and work, same as the rest of the world.
If your skillset goes no further than work that can be learned in a one hour training session, then unlucky. Why should other countries take unskilled Brits if they don't need them?