Female athletes crushed by 'women who were once men'

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: veracity

This is a sticky topic.

I think the fact that a person decides to transition to the other sex shouldn't mean that natural women, in this case, should face a superior athlete.

I also think that it sounds like segregation suggesting that separate leagues be set up.

It is a mess, and stepping on toes is going to happen. But who's toes?

Let the men (even trans men) compete in the men's sports and the women (including trans women) compete in women's sports.

I really do not understand why this is so complicated. No one knows (unless close friend, relative) that the male/female is trans or not. Sooooo...why does it matter? It never mattered before? Why now? Are we looking at privates before game time?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: kaylaluv

Decisions have consequences.

Cool. Then let's get rid of all categories of competition. Everyone competes with everyone. If you decide to be an athlete, that's what you gotta deal with.

I just find it sad that we tell a 5'6" 130 pound woman born a female that she doesn't have to compete against the 6'2" built-like-a-linebacker man born a male, cuz that wouldn't be fair, but we have no problem telling a 5'6" 130 pound trans female who took hormone blockers and hormones before ever hitting puberty that she has to compete against another trans female who transitioned well after puberty and just happens to be 6'2" and built like a linebacker, cuz she's a minority so we don't really care.

a reply to: kaylaluv


I'm just going to go back to how these controversies are over sports in particular that already are vastly mismatched all the time. Wrestling is bull# even if it's a single denomination, it's an every inch counts sport that is being exploited; this is the main reason they will not turn face over the genetic parts of the argument.

THOSE sports excluded participation in others being generally less controversial should be OKAY for the vast majority of the small denomination, that already is a small denomination of a freaking small denomination.

I see this as a non-issue because the flaws are in the sports is what is being exploited, this time just by transgenderism, rather than drugs, and other things, and people that want to win will try at any cost.

As added fuel for thought and discussion:

Do transgender athletes have an edge? I sure don’t.

Do Transgender Athletes Have an Unfair Advantage?

Do transgender athletes have an unfair advantage at the Olympics?

No, Allowing Transgender Athletes To Compete Won’t Destroy Women’s Sports

Do Transgender Athletes Have an Unfair Advantage?

Transgender people in sports

Transgender runners at no advantage, study finds

Testing, hormones, hatred: What it’s like to compete as a transgender athlete

I realize this is a controversial subject that raises strong emotions from both sides of the aisle but I just don't see how 1) there would ever be enough trans athletes in any given discipline to have a competition and 2) assuming that just because someone is trans gives them some automatic advantage is a mistake.

This has nothing to do with how someone identifies or feelings. It does have to do with the fact that trans bodies come in all shapes, sizes and abilities and that blanket exclusionary (or inclusionary) policies fail to equitably address all situations.

Again speaking personally, although I'm slightly above average height for other women, at my 5' 7" and average build for women of my height, I can't think of any type of physical sport where I would have had any particular advantage ever even at my peak fitness. If I was into athletics, I can't think of any sport where it would have been fair for me to compete against men because generally speaking on average, they are all bigger/stronger/faster than I have ever been.

Because this whole thing is so controversial, pisses people off and creates unneeded backlash when transgender people have bigger problems to deal with, as previously stated in another recent thread, I'd just rather that MtF trans people would stay out sports entirely but that's not really nice of me or fair to them if they are physically commensurate with their competition.

Again, we're talking about several hundred people in the entire world. Enough with the hysteria.

a reply to: seasonal

isnt this what soviets and est germans used to be accused of . if you born a male then you should compete as a male if you a female you should compete as a woman its the only truly fair way to be.

a reply to: seasonal

If they are born with a uterus, they are a woman. If not, they aren't. I don't hate them for being who they feel they are but this is getting ridiculous. I've always been supportive of gay marriage and hate crime legislation that protects the LGBTQ community but they are taking it too far.

Cue the SJW who will point out that some women, bc of a genetic disposition, are born without​ a uterus (yawn) or how not all TS are gay (again, yawn). Semantics are constantly argued on this site. I expect someone to be aghast at my suggestions and yet, I still have zero #s to give.

Weird, right?

Dudes racing girls is not okay. It isn't a fair race.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Gryphon66

The constitution says nothing of trans men playing with women.

Time has no baring on this.

Do you disagree that a man could say I am transitioning and want to play women's softball?

Heck yeah, id love to go win a fistful of medals and ribbons and awards... I wouldn't even have to change my sex life. You see, im transitioning to female, but i just so happen to be a Lesbian Female Trans, which makes me an even More endangered/protected class... I identify as a female, but since I'm a lesbian, I am going to keep my junk to use as a "toy" for my partner who enjoys another "woman" using a strap-on, so, although I won't necessarily enjoy the parts of our sex life that involve the use of my penis, out of sheer love for my lesbian partner, I will keep all my male parts, for her enjoyment. That's my sacrifice.

All those male to female trans who wamna sleep with men can just step to the back of the line, cause I'm a LESBIAN m2f trans, not like you priveliged "straight" m2f trans! You have NO IDEA what I have to go through every day! I deserve a lot of medals and trophies for what I've been through... I want a TV/book deal too, then we can talk about my movie Trilogy & merchandise licensing.

I'm HEROIC! Praise me! Praaaise meeee!!!! Oh, yes! Me! Meeee! MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

a reply to: Freija

I guess only one queztion remains...

Is the OPs claim that Trans athletes born men are"breaking all kinds of records" true or not?

This will work itself out when enough women get the crap beat out of them by dudes who want to be chicks. I say let nature take it's course. After all, nature always wins.

originally posted by: 3n19m470
...You see, im transitioning to female, but i just so happen to be a Lesbian Female Trans, which makes me an even More endangered/protected class... I identify as a female, but since I'm a lesbian, I am going to keep my junk to use as a "toy" for my partner who enjoys another "woman" using a strap-on, so, although I won't necessarily enjoy the parts of our sex life that involve the use of my penis, out of sheer love for my lesbian partner, I will keep all my male parts, for her enjoyment. That's my sacrifice.

Been listening to the propaganda from the great Transgender Borg, have we? As absurd as this sounds and as mocking as you've tried to be, some people actually say this kind of crap. Or maybe it's the purple-haired non-binary, gender neutral pronouned Millennial SJW's? It's hard to tell but keep in mind these are both fringe elements and why I have nothing to do at all with the "transgender community" other than to observe from afar and shake my head in wonder at some of the crazy sh# coming out of these camps.

It's a shame in some ways that everything under the sun falls under the transgender umbrella because non-transgender people fail to see the differences or understand the nuance from those that are actually suffering with dysphoria and do everything that can be done to become normal men and women. All these "nuttier" factions make things more difficult for "real" transsexual folks and that concerns me.

As far as "breaking all kinds of records", it sounds like you should be up for something. Go team!

a reply to: kaylaluv

"Born female"

You answered your own issue, Kayla. There is a difference between "I was born like this" and "I'm deciding to transition to something other than what I was born as." Sorry, but life can't and shouldn't appease every whim some discrete minority of the population wishes... this is why we don't allow furries to take drivers license photos in drag, we don't believe in lycanthrope or coddle it, and we don't allow white women to pretend they're black and president their local NAACP. Sometimes people just need to accept that their fetish or fad isn't going to be coddled in every way they want it to be.

It's remarkable this is even being debated. It's so completely ridiculous to defend the idea of men competing against women is somehow OK. Reading some of the reasoning is sad and hysterical at the same time.

You do realize people are not actually equal right? Some of bigger, faster, stronger, smarter and it's why we love to compete to see just who is better at whatever. The WORLD quickly realized 300lb lumberjacks had a slight advantage over 110lb women and decided to have "classes" to make it more competitive and "fair". Only idiots can't understand this and allow their feelings to outweigh reason.

It's really very simple, if you were born a man, you compete as a man in sports because that involves OTHER people too, who played by the rules their whole lives. What you decide to do on your own time, wear a dress, take hormones, chop your junk off, doesn't magically make you 100% female and therefore negates all the "fairness" arguments now doesn't it?

Trying to justify this because of trendy social programming exposes this flawed thinking so clearly that nothing else need to be said, but hey why bother to remain silent and be thought a fool, when you can continue to run your mouths and remove all doubt.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Because either way is an unfair advantage. She is taking male hormones. Women born as women not taking performance enhancing steroids compete against each other. Everyone else competes against men. Nothing else is fair.

a reply to: seasonal

Hi this topic certainly has the chance to go sideways on us let's try not to flame each other too much


I have a couple of friends who have made the change hear are my thoughts.

I used to play various sports with the one fellow . Good guy , busy with the ladies, musical and he did ballroom dancing.

As either gender I do not mind if s/he competes in it as a women..
As a women at nearly 6 ft she is quite tall her and her shoulders are a bit wide but now she finds racquetball a savage competition.

Is there a competitive advantages to completed transexual in sport ? Probable yes if a male athlete does the change but the advantage would be years of skills from the sport. So mental skill that person had.

So I guess I am okay with completed transgenders on all their meds competiting in sports. BUT if coaches start to load their teams with transgenders for any reason then they being selected unfairly.

Having said this I am uncomfortable when she askes me to go dancing.

a reply to: kosmicjack

I provided an objective analysis of your statement.

Where is my prejudice?

And you can call it "ignorance" if you want but it's my opinion, which I haven't tried to couch as fact, just common sense. You can shove your opinions on others as often as you like and, on a discussion board, I am free to respond. You can say the same thing over and over again but be prepared to get the same reaction.

prejudice

noun
1.
an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2.
any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

Dictionary

In response to my education thread you said

That says it all really.

No one forced you to read my thread and as far as I am aware there is no selective policing of threads which are within the t&cs based purely on what moderators find interesting. I spent several hours preparing that thread and I was awarded points by a moderator. You had nothing constructive to add to my thread and instead posted the same derogatory statement you posted on this thread. Several posters here have provided valid links. I'm guessing you did not click on any of them.

The real ignorance is thinking that people want to be educated on and/or forced to accept something that only a very few have to deal with on a regular basis.

Forced?? No, the real ignorance here is clinging to opinions which are based purely on feelings (which you incorrectly infer to be 'common sense') and then bulldozing threads and expressing those uninformed opinions as if they have some sort of merit.

It's the constant drum beating by the Trans-gendered community, and playing the victim card

I refer you to your original comment.

They want all the same rights as everyone else and no one gives a crap about us.

It is you who is playing the victim card.

originally posted by: proteus33
a reply to: seasonal

isnt this what soviets and est germans used to be accused of . if you born a male then you should compete as a male if you a female you should compete as a woman its the only truly fair way to be.

How can it be fair to say that this person (born male)



Should have to compete against this person (also born male) ?



Or, that this person (born female)



Should have to compete against this person (also born female)?



You might as well force women to compete against men and take away the two categories altogether.

a reply to: Freija

I agree with you about the statistics being slim on this.

Thank you for sharing from inside you experience. It is enlightening.

My I pose two questions to discuss? My phrasing may not be the best.

Would it be fair for a unmodified, not on hrt therapy person to compete as a women?

If a coach picks a team of transgenders people for some unspecified advantages is that fair?

The questions are for everyone. Just exploring the issue.

a reply to: veracity

I agree it really should be that simple.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Ha ha very funny.

So droll of you.

Mean while back at the thread.