Don't make this about religion.

Trump travel ban restricting entry from Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and people accuse him of religious discrimination. First, people cannot be born Muslim. Muslims are people who truthfully accept Islam into their hearts. The vast majority of people in these 7 countries are not Muslims. If you go there and ask them their religion, they will not tell you they are Muslim. So quit making this about religion because it's not.

A minority of people in Iraq are religious zealots, such as the Shia PMU, but they are not the majority in Iraq.

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a reply to: 2partySystem

The reason it looks like he discriminates against a religion is because his ban made exceptions for minority religions. In those countries that would be Christians. There was no exception for atheists or simply non-religious.


So in short there is a religious test in the EO. There is good reason to say it is religious discrimination.

Muslims are people who truthfully accept Islam into their hearts.

I wouldn't go that far.

Islam is like any other religion.

Learned out of a book about believing in a guy that never existed.

I wonder why that respecting religion only happens when it comes to muslim's.

When it comes to christian's and jews. It's an entirely different story.

I've lost track of how many threads and posts on here that can be succinctly summed up as the Jewphobes,Christianphobes trying to lecture the Islamophobes.

a reply to: 2partySystem

What are you talking about. Look up the stats. All 7 of those countries are 90%+ Muslim.

You are flat out lying.

a reply to: 2partySystem

I think you should go recheck your numbers and do your due diligence again. This thread is a fail. This statement alone:

The vast majority of people in these 7 countries are not Muslims.

is absurd. Extremist or not, most people in those countries ARE Muslim.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Not to mention people being asked if they're Muslim before being allowed into US.

a reply to: Grimpachi

The law makes exception for persecuted minorities. In those countries, like it or not, Christians very much are a persecuted minority.

I understand that might be hard to accept when you live in a country like this one, but there is it.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: 2partySystem

What are you talking about. Look up the stats. All 7 of those countries are 90%+ Muslim.

You are flat out lying.

So? The majority of Muslim majority nations are not on the ban.

a reply to: ketsuko

The law makes exception for persecuted minorities. In those countries, like it or not, Christians very much are a persecuted minority.

I know exceptions can be made for minorities.

Problem is he only made exception for minority religion.

It is a religious test and our constitution has limited the government in making religious tests. Was Trump completely uninformed about the constitution? I don't know, but the fact he worded it that way does make it look like religious discrimination.

a reply to: Grimpachi

... and do you have many documented cases of ISIS persecuting athiests in those seven countries? We do have many documented cases of persecution of the Christian and Yazidi minority religions.

Because the way you frame your argument, you cannot save anyone for being persecuted for their religion because it would by definition constitute a religious test. So either the atheists lump themselves in with faith groups or they fall under another sort of minority that can face persecution, but you argument is ridiculously absurd.

a reply to: Ohanka

Huh???

The OP is saying those 7 countries aren't Muslim Majority Nations. That is false. They are very clearly Muslim Majority Countries.

That is what I'm saying. No need to try and make an issue about that FACT. So I don't know what you're doing.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Ohanka

Huh???

The OP is saying those 7 countries aren't Muslim Majority Nations. That is false. They are very clearly Muslim Majority Countries.

That is what I'm saying. No need to try and make an issue about that FACT. So I don't know what you're doing.

The majority of the people in those nations likely don't call themselves Muslim just like most Christians don't necessarily call themselves Christians but instead identify by their sect: Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.

So you hear Sunni, Shi'a, etc.

a reply to: ketsuko

What part do you not understand?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

The EO that TRump signed has a religious test in it. That is unconstitutional. The 1st limits the US government Trump and his EO definitely qualify as government.

a reply to: ketsuko

Sunni, Shia, etc. is still Islam.

Evangelical, Baptist, etc. is still Christian.

I'm not saying they're all the same, but in a way, they're all the same.

None of which is the point. Those are in fact Nations with a majority Islam Religion in Practice. That's all I'm saying.

What the OP said was incorrect. That's all.

I'm not saying what Trumps reasoning is for banning them or why. The reason for that is much more complicated obviously. He says it's for Terrorism. Which factually doesn't make sense according to actual attacks. But it is about Islamic Terrorism according to him and specifically those countries so you can't exactly just dismiss the connection to Islam.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Ohanka

Huh???

The OP is saying those 7 countries aren't Muslim Majority Nations. That is false. They are very clearly Muslim Majority Countries.

That is what I'm saying. No need to try and make an issue about that FACT. So I don't know what you're doing.

The majority of the people in those nations likely don't call themselves Muslim just like most Christians don't necessarily call themselves Christians but instead identify by their sect: Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc.

So you hear Sunni, Shi'a, etc.

LOL What kind of argument is that? I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. "They're not Muslims, they're Sunnis!"

Just for the record, the "S-L-M" in "Muslim" is the same "S-L-M" in "Islam", "Salam", "Solomon/Suleyman", etc. Arabic, like other Semitic languages, is based on 3-letter "roots" (here you go). So in short, the Muslims in those countries will definitely know that they are called "Muslims", even if they adopt a specific denomination, school of thought/jurisprudence, etc.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Grimpachi

The law makes exception for persecuted minorities. In those countries, like it or not, Christians very much are a persecuted minority.

I understand that might be hard to accept when you live in a country like this one, but there is it.

Oh, Christians absolutely are persecuted there. But so are atheists and other Muslims.

Imagine if Baptists started killing all non-Baptists. What if the US banned all Christian refugees because of it? What about the Episcopalians, the non-denominational, the Catholics, etc?

So yes, Christians are persecuted. Along with a whole lot of other demographics and religions.