The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) Disproves the Existence of Paranormal?

Came across this article of Futurism.com last night. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it here yet (at least I couldn't find any threads).

Futurism.com

The lowdown of the article is renowned physicist Brian Cox claims that the lack of any physical evidence being detected by the highly sensitive Large Hadron Collider disproves the existence of ghosts. Here is his quote:

If we want some sort of pattern that carries information about our living cells to persist then we must specify precisely what medium carries that pattern and how it interacts with the matter particles out of which our bodies are made. We must, in other words, invent an extension to the Standard Model of Particle Physics that has escaped detection at the Large Hadron Collider. That’s almost inconceivable at the energy scales typical of the particle interactions in our bodies.

Now, I admit that I had to read over this a couple times and I'm still not sure I know exactly what he's saying. I think he saying that there is no evidence of a medium to which our cells could use to carry on after death.

Cox’s point relies heavily on the LHC’s ability to pick up the tiniest bursts of energy found in particle collisions. That mean that any energy signatures from paranormal entities should be easy to detect. Thus far, no such evidence has been found.

"Thus far" So maybe there is some evidence but it has yet to be known to science? Personally, I've always been highly interested in the paranormal but I also have always been very skeptical. I've had a handful of unexplained occurrences. Was it all in my head? Have all of the ghost stories that have been reported and passed down for hundreds of years been started by somebody with an over active imagination? Or could it be that the paranormal has nothing to do with our living bodies at all? Maybe it's different dimensions in time that occasionally cross paths?

What say you? Do you buy that the LHC finally closes the book on the paranormal? I find it very interesting.


EDIT: I've found some expanded quotes from Brian Cox on the subject. It may make his view a little more clear for us. These are comments from an episode of the Infinite Monkey Show.

"Before we ask the first question, I want to make a statement: We are not here to debate the existence of ghosts because they don't exist. If we want some sort of pattern that carries information about our living cells to persist then we must specify precisely what medium carries that pattern and how it interacts with the matter particles out of which our bodies are made. We must, in other words, invent an extension to the Standard Model of Particle Physics that has escaped detection at the Large Hadron Collider. That's almost inconceivable at the energy scales typical of the particle interactions in our bodies. I would say if there's some kind of substance that's driving our bodies, making my arms move and legs move, then it must interact with the particles out of which our bodies are made. And seeing as we've made high precision measurements of the ways that particles interact, then my assertion is there can be no such thing as an energy source that's driving our bodies."

He also goes on to say:

"To accept the existence of ghosts requires the rewriting of all of the above laws and theories of physics, does that mean that we should stop looking? Not necessarily, but believers must accept that a high standard of evidence is required to start rewriting the textbooks."

Makes a little more sense to me.

Um the LHC is a vacuum as empty as interstellar space it would seem like a dumb place to hunt for a ghost

a reply to: khnum

They are not looking for "ghosts" in the LHC. From what I'm gathering, they are proving that there is no way a ghost could exist from what they have learned about particles.

This is nonsense. paranormal is a big field first off, but the main component is that it is outside of our scientific measurements (at the moment)..so studying deeper into our current understanding isn't the right area to explore things outside of our scope (dimension perhaps, etc).

Its like someone studying a lake really intensely and concluding there are no aliens visiting earth because no matter how closely they look at the lake, they see no ufos.

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
a reply to: khnum

They are not looking for "ghosts" in the LHC. From what I'm gathering, they are proving that there is no way ghost could exist from what they have learned about particles.

Well, the hypothesis is that no "ghosts" could exist based on our material universe understanding of energy anyhow. a very narrow spectrum they are exploring and making bold claims on.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
This is nonsense. paranormal is a big field first off, but the main component is that it is outside of our scientific measurements (at the moment)..so studying deeper into our current understanding isn't the right area to explore things outside of our scope (dimension perhaps, etc).

Its like someone studying a lake really intensely and concluding there are no aliens visiting earth because no matter how closely they look at the lake, they see no ufos.

I agree with you. While interesting, it seems awfully arrogant for him to say definitively that the paranormal does not exist.

Edit: Neil deGrasse Tyson was on the same broadcast with him so maybe Neil's arrogance rubbed off?

I don't think he disproved anything other then an idea he had that the LHC would detect ghosts. Are ghosts made of matter? Are thoughts made of matter? Can psychological thought be picked up with the LHC? Maybe ghosts are purely mental forms. I don't think it can be dismissed that easily." I can see things in a mirror so I should see ghosts in the mirror otherwise they don't exist"... See how easy that was? Lol!

Thank you OP, thought provoking none the less

It doesn't disprove the paranormal.There is far too much that we as a species do not know about the universe to make such a statement.

Telekinesis exists. I know because I used to practice it. It was with very light objects in near frictionless situations, but I know with 100% certainty that objects can be moved with the mind. Science has no explanation for that transfer of energy, due in large part to the fact that it does not acknowledge its existence.

But, being that telekinesis exists, that means there is an aspect of the universe that science has yet to even crack the lid on. To me that is proof that he cannot correctly make this assertion.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Well as an eyewitness to a full on blue/white ectoplasmic apparition of a woman in hospital myself I would suggest the hypothesis so far is based on a very limited spectrum of knowledge and perception now I don't know whether it was a spiritual entity,a photographic memory that occurred under certain conditions or something supernatural/demonic but I was sane and sober when I saw it.

So it doesn't exist because he hasn't figured things out. And he is limited by the limits of the man made apparatus he is using.

Not a very scientific conclusion in my opinion. And since I already know personally for a fact that spirits however they exist, do in fact exist, I know he is wrong.

a reply to: scojak

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say but in a much more eloquent way. Lol

originally posted by: jtrenthacker
a reply to: khnum

They are not looking for "ghosts" in the LHC. From what I'm gathering, they are proving that there is no way a ghost could exist from what they have learned about particles.

.
Assuming a ghost is made of particles. The whole argument is silly. It reminds me of a story out of the USSR that told of taking a farmer up in a helicopter and asking of he saw God. He didn't, therefore they said God could not exist. Here you have a machine that is designed to measure matter looking for something that by most definitions is not made of matter. It's a materialist's dream machine. It's not designed to detect ghosts. It's no surprise that it can't.

any energy signatures from paranormal entities should be easy to detect

This is assuming that spirits can't exist without giving off physical energy signatures, which is ignorant. Our physical 3-dimensional world is not the center of reality. Spirits aren't forced to adhere to physical rules.

"Oh, well since we haven't discovered it, it can't exist."
This guy seems like an idiot. Why is he talking about the LHC not being able to detect the manner by which consciousness transcends physical death? The LHC studies particles, not the soul. Don't expect to measure something with a machine that by nature isn't capable of measuring it.
He might as well say cars don't exist because his thermometer hasn't shown signs of them... Two completely different things.

a reply to: trollz

But that's the rub isn't it? I don't disagree with what you are saying, but how can the paranormal ever be proven if it does indeed transcend our scientific understanding?
We can no longer rely on photographic or video evidence with the advancement of manipulation software. Even if something is experienced with your own eyes, how can we be sure? Like I said before, I've had a few experiences and to this day, I still question what I saw. Again, I'm not arguing with any of the comments on here, just some thoughts I have.

Perhaps they should replicate MacDougall's "21 grams experiment" inside the LHC.

If, at the time of death, the LHC does not pick up any energy leaving the body, then that means there is a full 21 grams that the LHC cannot detect. That's an awful lot of particles...

Oh ok I get it.

Suddenly absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Well than there is no extraterrestrial life in the universe.
See, proof!

a reply to: jtrenthacker

They are trying to find "the basic building block of reality, matter,"


They will not find it, it`s not there, only dancing gnomes and elves, and they do dance ever so fast.

-True story-

Argument from ignorance fallacy

Argument from ignorance (from Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence"), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proved false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that: there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,
true
false
unknown between true or false
being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.

originally posted by: scojak
Perhaps they should replicate MacDougall's "21 grams experiment" inside the LHC.

If, at the time of death, the LHC does not pick up any energy leaving the body, then that means there is a full 21 grams that the LHC cannot detect. That's an awful lot of particles...

You sir, generated enough interest for me to research this experiment.
So, I found this youtube video for all interested:


In his experiments, he got consistent 21 grams losses on each subject, even one that lost the 3/4 ounce one full minute after death. His thoughts were that humans have souls which weigh almost exactly 21 grams. No one has been able to disprove his theory since inception. It is noted, that the same experiment was conducted on dogs, only to see that their weight remained unchanged...leading the researcher to believe that animals don't have souls.

Very interesting indeed!

Thanks!

a reply to: havok

Cool stuff, right? I would actually be very intrigued to have them carry out this experiment in the LHC, if possible. I'm very curious what they would detect.