Open Letter to President Trump

a reply to: AboveBoard

The idea of some walled-in police state with ICE on constant raids is chilling to me.

The idea of foreign invaders is chilling to me, but not as much as the willingness to accept these foreign invaders

All those people sent to "detention centers" which are generally sub-standard jails, to rot for years before getting a hearing is bad too.

Do the crime, do the time. Don't wanna rot in jail? Don't break the law.

But you can't toss aside due process because we are a nation of laws

yet that is exactly what you are advocating.


Should we let bank robbers out of jail because they were only doing it for the benefit of their family?

a reply to: Vector99

Average cost today is $31,000 (rounded down) per prisoner. My bad. Of course in twenty years that will go up to account for inflation.

So not $40billion per year x 20 years.

Your numbers, which seem very low considering facility creation and maintenance, guards, food, utilities, transport vehicles, and medical costs, don't jibe with actual costs.

Actual cost to detain an illegal immigrant is $164 per day. Link

If they held them as prisoners for twenty years in large numbers (400,000 annually already) rather than releasing or deportation, what would that cost?

400k x $164 x 365 x 20 = $478,880,000,000

That's if we held onto what ICE already handles. 34,000 per day in a flexible population.

a reply to: Vector99

Due process is involved even in illegal immigration cases. Link

You are advocating for long term incarceration, an expensive non-fiscally conservative option. It doesn't make sense to jail people long term as it costs too much, and then what? Deport them?

Also, I think you missed the part where I said I wanted people coming into our country to be known and vetted.

a reply to: jjkenobi

True enough.

Tighten border security, that prevents, or at least drastically slows, illegal border crossings. Check!!

Now then, that leaves the approximately 11 million that are still here. What to do? Arrest 'em all? Good luck with that.

So, a compromise that no one is going to like, but that we all can live with. That is, after all, what a compromise truly is. Everyone equally unhappy.

Let them earn their citizenship as proposed. If they choose not to, then we send them back to where ever they're originally from.

Rounding up 11 million people, most of whom don't want to be rounded up, is a task Sisyphus would refuse, so too Heracles.

Tighten border security, allow those illegals already here two choices...earn the right to stay, or when caught sent home with no chance of ever returning, legally or otherwise, upon pain of a jail sentence of indeterminate length.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Just an added thought...

After we get them all in these 'border town immigrant depots'...it might be a nice gesture to let them open their own casinos.

Thanks for all the input.

For those opposed to the idea, for those that have brought up the issues of legality, the disdain for America by illegal immigrants, for those that talk about the limits to resources. . . . . you all are right.

I don't have an argument against any of that.

I don't.

But I'm looking at the situation pragmatically.

Logically, you can't reconcile the expression 3 > 7. You can't.

Neither can you get rid of 11 million people.

Do we boot out those that have harmed people? Yes.
those that have stolen identities? Yes.
Those that have broken even more laws? Yes.

Eventually though, we're going to have to reconcile the fact that it still leaves millions who do want to stay, those that haven't tried to break any other laws.

Absolutely it is frustrating to those that do the right thing and do it legally. It is an insult to each and every person that stood patiently in line and waited.

I don't have a counter-argument for any of that.

I'm not even saying that my idea is the best and only one out there. But I am trying to solve the equation the best that I can. I'm always willing to look at other options.

a reply to: DBCowboy

It's refreshing to hear some new thinking.
The entire issue has become a Gordian knot in it's complexity and won't be solved easily...if ever to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.

a reply to: DBCowboy


I keep saying this and no one seems to get it.....MANY go UNDER THE fence....No stupid wall is going to close those tunnels... there already is a fence, it is worthless, but even so its there. Even with that they go UNDER....

The coming or going or staying of immigrants, legal or illegal is really an aside, a symptom. What you must ask yourself and address it is just why they want to come and stay? What is the attraction?
Take away the attraction and the problem might solve itself. Now before anyone says it's for our standard of living, higher wages and more secure environment, I would say to you the same attraction now was the same 10 years ago, 20, 30 years ago but there was not the mass movement 10, 20, 30 years ago. So just what has changed that they want to come now?
Is it because the US is an easy touch? Living off the official grid, working off the grid. Apart from the criminal element, which makes no difference (any country) where they are only the affluence of their prey, the rest are either spongers or workers but the answer is still the same. It's your own fault for 1. giving in to them or 2. the section of your society that uses them as cheap labor.
Have I missed any reasonable answer.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Thanks for all the input.

For those opposed to the idea, for those that have brought up the issues of legality, the disdain for America by illegal immigrants, for those that talk about the limits to resources. . . . . you all are right.

I don't have an argument against any of that.

I don't.

But I'm looking at the situation pragmatically.

Logically, you can't reconcile the expression 3 > 7. You can't.

Neither can you get rid of 11 million people.

Do we boot out those that have harmed people? Yes.
those that have stolen identities? Yes.
Those that have broken even more laws? Yes.

Eventually though, we're going to have to reconcile the fact that it still leaves millions who do want to stay, those that haven't tried to break any other laws.

Absolutely it is frustrating to those that do the right thing and do it legally. It is an insult to each and every person that stood patiently in line and waited.

I don't have a counter-argument for any of that.

I'm not even saying that my idea is the best and only one out there. But I am trying to solve the equation the best that I can. I'm always willing to look at other options.

Excellent thoughts. I'm going to brain-storm on this from my admittedly inexpert set of ideas and ideals...


Good border security and immigration policy in my book =
1, dramatically lessen people coming in illegally and speed up processing (see below)

2. faster processing for people on the immigration roles who are doing things legally, while

3. maintaining solid vetting procedures,

4. continuing to supplywork-stay visas for migrating farm workers and other temporary workers and students, etc. with better tracking to prevent "stay overs," - work with industry and institutions to meet their needs for labor, or desire for international students, etc.

5. making the "big push" for deportations AFTER working to speed up processing of legal applicants, and AFTER a "if you serve this country you can fast-track to citizen status" (or even a probationary citizen status for several years), AND supply people already on the list the same reasonable means to fast-track as well. This is not at the expense of vetting. This requires hiring more people and upgrading technology to speed the processing.

6. Begin deportation of criminals first and foremost, and again, increase border security to keep these guys out.

7. Evaluate the "wall" on an area by area basis - is it effective where it is already in place? If not, what would make it more effective? Is it more the "idea" of the wall that people like, and if so, can you make policies that are actually effectual and call it "The American Border Security WALL Act" so that the "wall" is figurative as well as, in places where it makes sense, "physical."


DETAILS for BORDER SECURITY:
As seagull mentioned above, tighten border security to minimize influx of people. Add border security guards, more funding and hiring of immigration lawyers and judges to quickly process detainees, etc. This is one area I think that is being addressed by the new policy.

Help stabilize our southern neighbors, which costs money too, so there's that, by working to support UN non-gov agencies, and using our own political power and economic clout to help through the State Department, etc.

This means to focus on WHY people are coming here -- is it war torn refugees? Poverty? Lack of Opportunity?? Work WITH Mexico and Central/South America through the State department and through our economic policies, whatever to assist in stabilizing our southern neighbors (not covert actions so much as things like supporting UN non-gov initiatives, modify "the war on drugs" on the "demand" end here in the US which will curtail the "supply" end south of the border, etc. I don't know - I'm sure there are already plenty of people who have studied this and who have practical information on how the US can help to do this...

TECHNOLOGY - Use current technology to better keep track of people here on work visas and all "temporary" categories that tend to "stay over" after their allowed time. Use chip technology to connect to online data for each individual. Attach the tracking to check-ins and alerts with ICE when people should be leaving. The chip is then either "reloaded" with time if they have an extension and they must "check out" with the chip upon exiting the country. I don't know - these are just brainstorming ideas for better tracking...

This is a kind of "infrastructure expense" on a federal, national basis that needs to happen (just like it does for the VA, Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security that are locked into dinosaur systems that don't talk to each other and make life and paperwork a major hassle).



Anyway... Good thoughts, DB. Hard lines tend to bring about opposition, whereas "brainstorming" and actually evaluating what works and what doesn't tends to breed better policies and better results...

Upgrades and new systems always cost money. It's a matter of priority. If this is the priority of the American people, it should be paid for with our taxes and not half-assed by the Reps - put your money where your mouth is on things that will really make a difference (ie. not so much "the wall").

peace,
AB

a reply to: crayzeed

I think you have an excellent point - I would look at the other end, also, and ask "what are they leaving to come here in the first place and risking their lives to do so?" I addressed that somewhat in my post above this one...

Gotta look at the whole picture! Many dots connect to connect on this problem... Better living and stability where they ARE means less reason to leave...America is a powerful and influential nation and we might be able to work towards that end, with our own self-interest and security in mind.

a reply to: seagull

You just enforce existing laws, easy as that. You check citizenship status anytime someone uses the DMV, medical services, education services, labor services, etc. If the citizenship check shows illegal status, you require the agency or organization to immediately report the individual with name and declared address.

It's humorous to think of how many people say "It's ONLY 11 million illegals, that's not enough to impact the nation negatively" but then those 11 million become a huge, daunting task when the conversation turns to removing them from a country they neither belong in nor have any right to be in. Can't have it both ways.

Mass deportations now.

Another excellent idea: dangle amnesty as a carrot. Open a 6 month "register for amnesty" window. During that window, pass a bill stating that anyone here illegally after the amnesty window will lose ALL services and be deported upon detection. Then, when the window closes, withdraw the amnesty and round up all those who registered, sending them back to where they belong.

It's not kind, but neither is criminal trespass...

Sounds like a typical democrat stance. A cry to comprise to, dilute Trumps goal to make america great again!

Trump needs to moblise the national guard to help ICE round these illegal scum up.
Open the Fema camps to hold these illegals!

Then chuck them out! No comprimise no backing down! And if the illegals refuse to go! Well the national guard have guns Bullets are cheaper than welfare!

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Another excellent idea: dangle amnesty as a carrot. Open a 6 month "register for amnesty" window. During that window, pass a bill stating that anyone here illegally after the amnesty window will lose ALL services and be deported upon detection. Then, when the window closes, withdraw the amnesty and round up all those who registered, sending them back to where they belong.

It's not kind, but neither is criminal trespass...

If I ever need to hire a criminal mastermind I am hiring you on the spot.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We are not evil, bigoted biased people, and I don't think you are either.

Evil will always find a way when good people decide to do nothing about it, casting a vote every now and then is pretty close to that if you ask me.

We aren't going to be able to close our borders completely and we definitely do not need a police state.

Just another concept to devide & conquer then? Why would we need new borders with 'No-Go Areas' and gated communities if it wasn't for the Greater Reich of law & order debacles?

Guess what, the police state is already staring right back at ya. Legitimized with votes, of course. Business as usual, glory to the Brave New Corporation! You obey a nice day now.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

11 million is a hell of a lot of people, I'd never say otherwise...and it's a problem, I'll not say otherwise than that, either. Your solution of mass deportations, however, I just can't see how that's going to work, either. Convince me otherwise, my friend.

How do you plan on doing it? Paying for it? Who do you plan on doing it? Where are you going to hold them for their hearings?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

Neither can you get rid of 11 million people.

Not all at once, of course not. But over the course of a few years we most certainly can.

As for the Dreamers, I believe the children should be allowed to stay and become citizens as long as they have a guardian that is a citizen here.

Their parents will have to go home though. They knew what they were risking to bring their kids here and they should face the consequences with honor.

We could have an open enrollment period with a strict deadline, then once the deadline is up, I'd give them one year to make arrangements.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Xtrozero

As opposed to being angry with a system that you followed yet 12 years later....

The immigration process is broken, it needs to be tossed out and replaced. I don't trust the buffoons in charge now to do it though. Instead they'll botch this whole deportation thing up and cost us billions in taxes and we'll still have illegal immigrants.

Seems like you want to go back to professional politicians who for the next 50 years would not touch this with a 10 foot pole. We have on one hand what you desire and in the other hand is what is possible. Whether you like it or not the "buffoon" is our only choice to see anything at all.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It's an issue that can no longer be ignored.