Trangender Bathroom and Locker Room Useage at Public Schools - New Federal Guidelines.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

That's right. It's a public restroom. You are going to have to deal with uncomfortable situations like stinky-ness, loud noises, and messes others leave behind - and yes, maybe a trans male using the men's room with you. That's not the same thing as expecting a trans female to put her safety on the line by forcing her to use the men's room.

a reply to: Freija

Why is "recourse" needed unless you've been peeping and know someone is "of the opposite anatomical gender".

1) Because they ARE the opposite gender, whether I peek or not. 2) If no one is supposed to know your gender, why is it necessary to use a different bathroom?

You mean fair to your FEELINGS that you seem so willing to whine about in others and believe that yours are more important than theirs. Sheesh!

I am not talking about my feelings. I am talking fact. How is it fair to force other people to be in a restroom with someone of the opposite gender? How do you justify that? No, my feelings are not more important than others. But they are not less important either, which you seem to believe. Sheesh is right...

What rights? Is someone forcing you by law to pee in a bathroom you don't belong in?

No, someone is forcing me to pee in a bathroom THEY don't belong in.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Vroomfondel

That's right. It's a public restroom. You are going to have to deal with uncomfortable situations like stinky-ness, loud noises, and messes others leave behind - and yes, maybe a trans male using the men's room with you. That's not the same thing as expecting a trans female to put her safety on the line by forcing her to use the men's room.

Yes, but uncomfortable situation, stinky-ness, loud noises, and messes - are NOT protected rights. Come on. You know better than to try a weak argument like that here.

In public you give up the right to privacy. You have no reasonable expectation to always use a public restroom entirely alone if it is meant to accommodate more than one person. But you do have the right to be protected from people of the opposite gender simultaneously occupying personal space such as restroom, locker rooms, changing rooms, etc.

The ONLY exception to that should be when ALL parties agree to those conditions. Otherwise you are forcing one side into a situation they may not be comfortable with and did not ask for. If you can do that to them, why is it any different for us to do it to you and leave things as they are now? It seems like its only wrong when someone forces you to do it but you have no problem forcing someone else to do it.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Who are you to say who belongs in what bathroom?

The bathroom police?

(oh how i wish this was a funny joke that would never come true)

originally posted by: veracity
a reply to: shooterbrody

this is not a failure by the previous administration. Obama was protecting a group of American's rights...he was successful. Anyone who tries to infringe on anyone's rights (no matter how small the minority is) is a failure...there are also other words to describe them as well but I will hold off on that.

Sorry the former administrations position on this issue is a failure. As with all the other weaponized federal agencies(irs,epa,doj) the former potus' strategy, for being unable to pass legislation after his first mid term elections, was failure.
This particular joint effort of the department of education and the department of justice was to redefine what title 9 is. No federal agency should be able to interpret what the law is. That is first a legislative duty and a judicial duty. Was there even any attempt to pass any kind of legislation in the house or the senate that protected someone based on "gender identity"?
This was a lazy and disingenuous attempt to subvert the legislative and judicial branches of the government, and as such was rightly relegated to the ash heap of history.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I understand that it is your poorly put together opinion, so please state it as such, do not state it as a fact please.

Its ok for you to have an opinion, but to believe it as fact and also push it onto others as factual is not ok.

a reply to: veracity

Fact: the doj and the doe made a new interpretation of a law passed in 1972 and threatened to pull school funding for non compliance.
Fact: the house and senate pass laws not the doj or doe
Fact: the supreme court interprets said passed laws not the doj or doe
Fact: the failed "guideline" is no longer a "guideline".

It is almost like the former potus was never here.

a reply to: shooterbrody

but it is YOUR opinion that this is bad and others opinion that it is good

originally posted by: ketsuko
People who see transgenders who actually look like the sex they identify with are more likely to decide peeing is no threat ... but them the gender fluid guy who looks every inch a man comes upo and joins the party and people back away and don't want any part of it. You just demanded the right of a man to pee with little girls ...

Great! Maybe you can issue non-subjective standardized guidelines so that we'll all know them for determining who actually looks like the sex they are. Don't you see a problem with this?

What would make you happy? Forehead tattoos from a medical professional stating you've been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. Would you feel more safe then?

There are some things I agree with you on, believe it or not and as much as I despise the argument, IMO Obama's "Dear Colleague" letter was rife with over political correctness in an attempt to be all inclusive which in the long run and in some some respects really did disservice to those actually trans. This falls somewhere out from under the umbrella of us all being happy, holding hands and singing kumbaya but for the kids that are under medical care with their parents spending $20K a year on therapists, blockers or hormones, why should they be penalized or grouped in with the lass that crops off her hair, dies it pink and blue and wears flannel one day and couture the next because "they" feel like it and are gender flexible? According to the 2015 US Transgender Survey, 80% of those "identifying" as non-binary are natal females with strong feminist leanings. That doesn't make them transgender but it isn't polite to say so.

I get it that there may be those too afraid to go to their parents to get medical help or other extenuating circumstances but the no questions asked policy does open up facilities access to anyone that damn well feels like it. I also get it that some people want to bend their gender and don't feel they need a doctor's permission to do so but atypical gender expression is not the same critter as having gender dysphoria. Of course, there are areas of overlap or in the ways a person may progress as their trans identity is actualized so it is confusing as hell. Even to me. I find it best to go with the flow and not worry about other people.

You seem to be most upset by those mid-spectrum that don't clearly fit into the binary paradigm that have claimed the transgender label for themselves? The flock of anti-transtrender YouTubers like to point out that transgender people transition from one gender to the other and that anything less is not quite the same thing. I tend to agree with that but the guardians of political correctness wouldn't. I don't like this any more than you do because they are conflated with those actually transgender.

I at least recognize my bias as being influenced by growing up trans and know that I am very lucky to have survived and what a difficult thing this was for me and my parents but damn, that was fifty years ago and it is disheartening to know that trans kids like I was still are facing some of the same challenges, discrimination and fear from those lacking compassion and empathy and the ability to see beyond their own noses. We should have come further than this by now.

originally posted by: Freija
Transgender people are people with likes, dislikes, interests, talents, feelings and emotions, personalities and families just like everybody else and it's really simple minded to consider them just parts.

Yes everyone has all those things which is why you can't just expect everyone to fall in line with what you and an extremely tiny minority believe. At the end of the day, you're talking about people with mental illness. There is no reason everyone has to bow down to this tiny minority. Make a separate bathroom for people with mental illness, problem solved.

originally posted by: TheBulk
Yes everyone has all those things which is why you can't just expect everyone to fall in line with what you and an extremely tiny minority believe. At the end of the day, you're talking about people with mental illness. There is no reason everyone has to bow down to this tiny minority. Make a separate bathroom for people with mental illness, problem solved.

Being transgender/transsexual i.e. having gender dysphoria is not a mental illness any more than being left-handed or heterosexuall. Let's make a separate bathroom for ignorant, uninformed bigots with a dime store degree in psychology and we'll all be happy.

a reply to: veracity

good, bad, it is no longer a "federal guideline"

Make no mistake, I want to see ALL children protected. I just do not think federal agencies "interpreting" existing laws and bullying school districts by withholding federal funds is the best way to go about it. I think almost ALL of the people in the usa want to see ALL children protected.

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

A recipient may provide separate toilet, locker room, and shower facilities on the basis of sex, but such facilities provided for students of one sex shall be comparable to such facilities provided for students of the other sex.

Title 9 was written so that girls would get the same opportunities, classes, funding, ect as boys. To stretch that to "gender identity" issues is ridiculous.

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Freija
Transgender people are people with likes, dislikes, interests, talents, feelings and emotions, personalities and families just like everybody else and it's really simple minded to consider them just parts.

Yes everyone has all those things which is why you can't just expect everyone to fall in line with what you and an extremely tiny minority believe. At the end of the day, you're talking about people with mental illness. There is no reason everyone has to bow down to this tiny minority. Make a separate bathroom for people with mental illness, problem solved.

Just curious, why are you so convinced it is a mental illness? Why is it difficult for you to accept that it is physiological?

Obviously, a person with gender dysphoria has a brain that does not agree its body. Why is your assumption that the problem is in the brain? Why not the body? Shouldn't your own brain be the default authority to your own physical integrity and identity? If you sprouted a third nipple on your neck, should you get brain surgery to accept that or should you get it removed? What if liberals everywhere tried to convince you that you were sick in the head for even considering getting rid of that neck nipple?

And what if there were mountains of science and medically-authoritative evidence backing you up, telling you that no, you don't need to keep that neck nipple and you'll feel better removing it?

Something is happening to people.....physically, mentally, emotionally, and I will even say spiritually.

The activist mentality has taken over and morphed into a mental illness. Every little thing has to be a big issue that they, the activists, insist that the Big Federal Daddy has to solve. Big babies, imo! Every issue does not rise to this level, regardless of what the babies think.

originally posted by: Freija


Being transgender/transsexual i.e. having gender dysphoria is not a mental illness any more than being left-handed or heterosexuall. Let's make a separate bathroom for ignorant, uninformed bigots with a dime store degree in psychology and we'll all be happy.

It absolutely is not the same as being left handed, hetero or even homosexual. A man is not a woman and vice versa no matter how much surgery and hormones you synthetically pump yourself with. That chick who thinks she's a cat, is not a cat. It's a mental illness.

originally posted by: Abysha
Just curious, why are you so convinced it is a mental illness? Why is it difficult for you to accept that it is physiological?

It boggles my mind that I even have to answer this question. If a person thinks they're a cat, is that a mental illness in your mind?



I beleive whats going on here is a sort of mass brainwashing. It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation. Picard is captured and tortured. His captor constantly asks him how many lights there are above him (4), but every time he answers "4", he is tortured more. The point being that when he gets him to say there are 5 lights, he is broken and will believe anything he's told. That's what's going on now. You want us to agree with something that is obviously not so and when you get everyone to do that, you have them.

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Freija


Being transgender/transsexual i.e. having gender dysphoria is not a mental illness any more than being left-handed or heterosexuall. Let's make a separate bathroom for ignorant, uninformed bigots with a dime store degree in psychology and we'll all be happy.

It absolutely is not the same as being left handed, hetero or even homosexual. A man is not a woman and vice versa no matter how much surgery and hormones you synthetically pump yourself with. That chick who thinks she's a cat, is not a cat. It's a mental illness.

After a duration of a thousand years, the power of astrology broke down when, with Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo, the progress of astronomy overthrew the false hypothesis upon which the entire structure rested, namely the geocentric system of the universe. The fact that the earth revolves in space intervened to upset the complicated play of planetary influences, and the silent stars, related to the unfathomable depths of the sky, no longer made their prophetic voices audible to mankind. Celestial mechanics and spectrum analysis finally robbed them of their mysterious prestige.

— Franz Cumont

It challenges your baked-in beliefs. You will never listen to reason or science that runs counter to antiquated perspectives unless you someday have to. And probably not even then.

a reply to: TheBulk

Being a cat isn't a thing. You know it isn't. Gender dysphoria is. It is an actual thing, caused prenatally. There is zero reason to attempt to change the brain into thinking something is wrong when the body can more easily and safely be corrected.

Stop with the tired lame cat analogies. Jesus, grow up people.

originally posted by: queenofswords
Something is happening to people.....physically, mentally, emotionally, and I will even say spiritually.

The activist mentality has taken over and morphed into a mental illness. Every little thing has to be a big issue that they, the activists, insist that the Big Federal Daddy has to solve. Big babies, imo! Every issue does not rise to this level, regardless of what the babies think.

Totally! How's that war on Christmas working out for y'all? All that legislation bringing nativity scenes back into schools... yeah, that's not asking Big State Daddy to solve their mental illnesses or anything, is it...

Good lord, Christians are the last people on Earth who should accuse others of combining mental delusions and legislation.

originally posted by: queenofswords
Something is happening to people.....physically, mentally, emotionally, and I will even say spiritually.

I blame the Internet. (and global warming!)

originally posted by: TheBulk
... A man is not a woman and vice versa no matter how much surgery and hormones you synthetically pump yourself with.

"Man" and "woman" are descriptive of gender roles and expression. What's hormones and surgery got to do with that?

That chick who thinks she's a cat, is not a cat. It's a mental illness.

What a tired and lame weakly sauced argument undeserving of a response. Sorry.