Trangender Bathroom and Locker Room Useage at Public Schools - New Federal Guidelines.

originally posted by: ketsuko
First off, has anyone noticed how the Obama rules conflated gender identity with sex from the law? Sex is a biological thing and that is the word used in the actual Title IX law. Gender identity is a thing that stands athwart one's biological sex in the case of transgendered folks and this is why we have this controversy because we have girls with peepees and boys with vaginas now.

Either gender is not sex or it is, but we can't continue to just conflate the two when it serves our purposes to do so.

Second, pretty much every single comment on this thread thus far has ignored the issue of locker rooms. That's where the real controversy is and always has been. People who are against don't want already uncomfortable communal locker rooms and showers to suddenly become sex co-ed even if everyone in there claims they all have one gender.

I know you and I see eye-to-eye on the unfortunate marriage between bathrooms and locker rooms when this issue comes up. They should be separated.

But, again, I ask you: do you agree with the bills that target transfolk just going to the bathroom? If not, why don't people like you (I'm assuming you aren't the only conservative who is primarily upset about locker rooms but not about bathrooms) insist that conservatives separate the two when legislating?

I could say the same about liberals combining the two issues (and I do say that same thing about them) but why do I not hear more ground-level Republicans arguing that point?

originally posted by: Noncents
I'm not visiting MSN to get their story. But I do have one question.

From the OP I get the impression that they (The feds) are looking to make this a state authority instead of a federal authority issue.

Is that correct?

That was an excuse they made, but if they were really interested in that, they would not make federal laws regulating where trans people can go to the bathroom.

We have a high-school in town that generates national attention. The student has boobs and a pecker. The boys beat him up in the locker room, and the girls won't accept her in theirs. I'll have to look up the latest ruling from the local court. It's gone back and forth. Fascinating times.

originally posted by: Noncents
I'm not visiting MSN to get their story.

Here's a link to a well-written article about the upcoming (potential) changes. Daily Mail U.K. does a better job often times than U.S. based media.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: carewemust
... The student has boobs and a pecker.

That's an absolutely wonderful way to to describe a a teenager. How would you feel if people talked about your child this way, obsessing or fetishizing about their private parts? I doubt you'd like it much and would probably kick someone's teeth in if they talked about your kid this way.

This is reductionism, pure and simple. Transgender people are people with likes, dislikes, interests, talents, feelings and emotions, personalities and families just like everybody else and it's really simple minded to consider them just parts.

Thanks for the link though. The closing counter paragraph really cracked me up.

In Jefferson City, Missouri, Alissa Johnson, a volunteer with the Christian group Concerned Women for America, said her 17-year-old son and 10-year-old daughter would be 'horrified' to share school bathrooms.

Of course they would. You've raised them with ignorance, prejudice and the fear your fundamentalist religion says you're supposed to have. Good job, mom! Gawd I can't stand people sometimes.

a reply to: Freija

Gawd I can't stand people sometimes.

You really think you have that bad? Try growing up in that environment.

a reply to: Freija

The thing is up until a few years ago it would not have been a topic. Not with the transgendered that I know. Nor the rest of society. In small bar bathrooms gender sharing has been a thing with no issue. In some more liberal cities I have visited co-ed bathrooms were the norm.

Boobs and a pecker could have described me as a straight male, even after I was in weight lifting.
There is no fetish. Some folk in the US are hung up on gender or male/female bodies. It is once we can accept humans for humans is when this will go away. Probably not before.

a reply to: carewemust

Bathroom and changing room use should match one's plumbing.

It's not complicated. How one dresses doesn't change their anatomy.

originally posted by: Freija



Gawd I can't stand people sometimes.

Hillary Clinton shares your sentiments, Freija.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
It's not complicated.

But you see it is complicated and that's what most people don't understand and why this is a problem. Keep in mind, we are talking about students in school, not some crowded bar and a story someone once knew.

Please try to think about this for a minute and put yourself in someone else's shoes. Imagine yourself as one of these kids or the parents of one of these kids. Regardless how you feel about transgender youth, they do exist as a fact in our world.

Maybe it's just that you have a hard time picturing transgender students or have a vision in your mind that's not quite accurate? Below are transgender girls in school. Three are in high school. One is in college. One has lived every minute of her life as a girl since the second grade and one of the others since the fourth grade. They are completely normal girls in every way except one and all are planning to correct that when they are old enough. If you were the parent of one of these kids, wouldn't you want to stand up for them, protect them and do everything in your power to see that they had the best chance in life?

What do you think forcing them into the boy's bathroom would do them socially and emotionally? Maybe you can't imagine this in your own mind but statistically, this is the kind of thing that leads directly to depression, suicide and dropping out of school or developing bladder/urinary problems by holding it. Kind of hard to learn when you are being treated as some kind of pariah when all they want to do is fit in with their peers.

If any of these kids were yours would you really want them going in the boy's bathroom? Can you imagine not only the potential danger but the implications of what it would do to them psychologically and socially? Nevermind the negative ways this would be disruptive to their education.

Try to have a little compassion and understanding. Life is hard enough for these kids as it is.

Personally I don't know what all the fuss is about ..... am I missing something?

When nature calls and I have to use a Ladies public toilet, apart from any waiting

time its into the cubicle lock the door, (nobody knows what I am doing in there but

me) out of the cubicle wash hands and leave .... 10 minutes at most.


The only experience I have of Mens toilets is what I have seen on TV .... which

apart from the urinals/stalls they have cubicles too? So the toileting experience

should be much the same .... privacy in the cubicle? In and out max 10 minutes.


As your 'plumbing' is inside your clothes who has to know but you?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Bathroom and changing room use should match one's plumbing.

It's not complicated. How one dresses doesn't change their anatomy.

Buck Angel and Bailey Jay, look it up.

originally posted by: Freija

In Jefferson City, Missouri, Alissa Johnson, a volunteer with the Christian group Concerned Women for America, said her 17-year-old son and 10-year-old daughter would be 'horrified' to share school bathrooms.

Of course they would. You've raised them with ignorance, prejudice and the fear your fundamentalist religion says you're supposed to have. Good job, mom! Gawd I can't stand people sometimes.

I live close to Jefferson City, and this doesn't surprise me a bit. Missourians are a primitive and hateful people.

This article surprised me though. Just over the border in Kansas, an even more conservative state. Gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling and a little hope for humanity.

Transgender homecoming queen Landon Patterson of Oak Park High is honored to be in national spotlight

What % of the population is so called transgender? Nature provided us with two genders. Vagina and penis. It´s very easy. For privacy reasons it was decided by common sense to divide those two when it comes to whiteware.

In reality, public bathrooms internally are separated, means you still have physical barriers. No one will see your private parts or what you´re doing in there, normally. Means, the only difference is that it´s a "secure space" for genders when washing hands.

Jokingly asked:
Why do transgenders want to take my "secure space" away? I thought those were overly concerned about such issues?

Oh the hypocrisy.

originally posted by: Freija
As as a financial contributor to several transgender advocacy organizations, I am on several mailing lists and we've pretty much known this was coming.

Obama issued the guidelines on transgender students in May of last year in his "Dear Colleague" letter. Later, a federal judge in Texas issued an injunction or some legal maneuver to halt enforcement of the guidelines nationwide. This same judge filed suit against the federal government for the state of Texas to revoke these guidelines all together. 13 additional states joined in this lawsuit.

Two days after Sessions was appointed Attorney General, it was announced the federal government would not contest or fight the lawsuits brought on by the states.

Now DeVoss and Sessions are intending to completely just do away with the guidelines issued by the Obama administration.

Here is one of the emails I received today from the National Center for Transgender Equality

I followed the link in the email, added my 2¢ and emailed six different govt. entities and individuals. I urge you to check it out if for no other reason to see what grassroots, person on the street activism looks like and who got the emails. This isn't social justice warrioring. It's fighting for the survival, equality and dignity of children directly affected by this. Since I was one of those children fifty years ago, this issue is near and dear to my heart because I don't want kids to have to grow up with the bull# I did in the 60's and early 70's.

Last week, over 1,000 parents also emailed Trump, Sessions and DeVoss to please keep these guidelines in place for the sake of their transgender children.

When you have a genuine understanding of these issues and can separate them out from all the non-binary/genderqueer transtrenders and attention seeking gender-neutral nonsense, this is a serious issue for those students that are genuinely transgender suffering from gender dysphoria and their parents and are concerned for their well-being, mental health and the ability to have the same educational opportunities as everyone else.

Leaving up to the individual states is akin to licensing discrimination and will create a hodgepodge of different laws all over the country. These are national rights issues and need to be lead by the federal government.

I know this is ATS and trans topics seem to bring out the worst in people but I urge everyone to please take the time to learn more about this issue with open minds and compassion for the struggles of trans youth and their families.

I would be more than willing to help with that understanding in any way possible.

Excellent post.

When you have a genuine understanding of these issues and can separate them out from all the non-binary/genderqueer transtrenders and attention seeking gender-neutral nonsense, this is a serious issue for those students that are genuinely transgender

Why do you think "the movement" (for lack of a better word) to insure that genuinely transgender people their rights are allowing "nonsense" , as you put it, when it clearly is hurting their cause?

a reply to: Abysha

Why don't trangendered folks insist on a true definition of what transgendered means?

There are also two sides to this coin.

Most of us who don't care also don't care when we are talking about people who sincerely believe that are the wrong gender and have gone out of their way to look and act like the gender they think they are, but there are also plenty of transgendered activists who also insist on pulling the gender fluid under this umbrella too - the folks who never plan on sincerely trying to look and act like the gender they say they are or whose gender identity fluctuates back and forth.

Disgusted by the posts.

Make a third bathroom. Simple.

But here is the problem, when a person can be any gender they want, on a whim, and change from moment to the next, that means, women and girls are not safe.

Women and girls don't want men in their bathrooms nor should a girl be subjected to pedo dressed as a woman.

We have the right to our own bathrooms inviolate always have and always will.

You are the gender you're born.

If there is a need for a 3rd bathroom for those who have gender issues, SO BE IT AND FINE AS LONG AS THEY STAY OUT OF MINE.

Thank you President Trump.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ketsuko, you didn't ask me but I'm going to address both you and DanDan because your questions are the same.

Let me start with the caveat that most already know but some don't. I am of transsexual (sex change) experience, diagnosed with the medical condition called gender dysphoria and have dealt with it for all of my 62 years. My answers and opinions don't follow the politically correct "party line" of the "movement".

The term transgender is a convenient umbrella of such entirely broad scope as to be completely useless. Having gender dysphoria is a medical condition. Being gender non-conforming/variant, i.e. the transtrenders, pretenders, non-binaries and 76 Tumblr genders is not. It is political statement, a fashion statement and not much different from being goth or emo. These alternate identities and made up genders have latched onto the transgender umbrella for a sense of legitimacy.

This indeed does hurt the needs of those truly suffering with gender dysphoria. Many people that are truly trans are speaking out as are many of the anti-SJW/anti-feminist YouTubers.




Also check out Yorick, Suit Yourself and Matthew C.

I don't have a solution to this problem. Clearly, genderfluid, genderqueer and unicorn genders are what is pissing people off and causing all the confusion and anger.

It's still against the law for men to use the women's room and vice versa. Don't advertise and use the room that suits you. Is that really so difficult. But is seems a very small portion of the country wants everyone to know their issue.