Democracy is a failure,problem is the alternatives are worse is there any other options?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: crazyewok

I was very specific about the mutlinational megaconglomerate corporations that run the "Two Party + IC + MSM System", I talked about corporate law (them having all the same rights and MORE under their legal classification as "persons"), and you kept the ball squarely in the court of they're to be protected and anyone against such organizational machinations are something akin to anti-Constitutional tyrants. (paraphrasing)

If you plan to use the criminal justice system against individual jounlists then yes that is wrong.

I stand by that. Sorry but its a clear legal no no.

But as i said revoking jounlists licences and tighting libel laws seems fine by me.

Get rid of relgion once and for all. It's outdated and contributes nothing to fix the problems of this world. Quit using terms like race,sexual orientation,religion just call them humans. It also doesn't matter what gender your partner has. Unity is the only thing to save Earth. Instead of governments spying at each other they should work out plans to terraform the deserts for food and water. Get rid of all radicals,cartels,mafias,human trafficker,drug kingpins,gang bangers and so forth. The list is pretty long. All of them get one chance to surrender themselves to the authorities and have to give up all there assets and money. Eradicate them all if they don't comply. Furthermore every celebrity,politician,priest,member of the elite or anyone for that matter that is guilty of crimes like pedopilia,murder,rape,corruption and other serious crimes will be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. There will be no exceptions and all protection they once had will be null and void. Every human gets a home and work.

There will be no more slavery. Invade North Korea and free the people there. The labor camps are a disgrace for humanity and we would't condone this # no longer. Actually get rid of all dictators who treat there people poorly and unjust. Seize all of there assets including vatican city and other churches all around the globe and use it to rebuild fallen countries. Get said countries economy and infrastructure up and running again. Dismantle the pharma and drug industry and distribute the cures they are supressing to all in need.

Start building a huge space ship fleet to explore the solar system and make plans to colonize mars,the moon and beyond. Disclose the truth about aliens. Introduce the reverse engineered technology that exists. If it doesn't just use Nikolai Teslas blueprints. He was way ahaed of this time. In fact use all the supressed technology to help the human race. Get all the smartest scientists of the world in one room and let them solve poverty,food crisis,clean energy and anything else that helps us in the pursuit of world wide peace and unity. Use the military of all countries to destroy the cabals,shadow government,occultists,reptillians and what not. Get rid of all currencies and introduce only one for the whole world. Housing and energy will be free. All countries are counted as equal. The worldwide ressources belong to the human race now. No more starving humans. Every country gets to vote for a spokesperson and thus forming one worldwide government that protects all interests of the human race. There will be no more wars for greed,land,ressources,oil or anything else. Instead we are going to build only one huge military force that protects the earth and its inhabitants. Seeking peaceful co-existence with other lifeforms is the next step.

That's just a little thought experiment. For the sake of it i just assumed most conspiracy theories were true. I've got plenty of another ideas. I'm fully aware that some of it is extreme but it's for the human race and to move forward not constantly looking back at past mistakes. Sorry i got carried away.

If we in the US would quit thinking we have a democracy and stick with the truth (a Constitutional Republic guiding a democratic process), we'd likely have about as good a system as you can have with human flaws.

Its that people rationalize their way out of the chains that the Constitution put on the government, and then begin expanding power.

Our standing army and federal police forces (yes, multiple) are all contrary to our constitution. But a bureaucrat somewhere along the way was able to rationalize themselves out of the chains that bound them, and expand their power.

Department of Education....why on Earth is Uncle Sam availing themselves of education? Side note: education cannot improve until the inner struggle between "training workers" and "educating the masses" gets resolved. You can walk in 2 directions at once.

Thoreau, in his well known work "Civil Disobedience", stated:

I HEARTILY ACCEPT the motto, — "That government is best which governs least";(1) and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient. The objections which have been brought against a standing army, and they are many and weighty, and deserve to prevail, may also at last be brought against a standing government. The standing army is only an arm of the standing government. The government itself, which is only the mode which the people have chosen to execute their will, is equally liable to be abused and perverted before the people can act through it.

Im not sure it could be stated better. He was ranting against the Mexican American War, but its as relevant today as it ever was. (side note: listen to some John Prine while reading Thoreau...it sets the right mood).

Democracy needs a chain. A chain that limits the people only through limiting the government. The great shortfall of democracy is that is doesn't tap into inspiration once The People realize they can simply vote themelves entitlements (I think it was Jeferson who lamented this). The most expedient way to prevent this is to chain the government so that it is forbidden from enacting programs that fund the dole.

The government shouldn't be daddy. It shouldn't be nanny. It should simply be a mechanism which facilitates civlization. Outside of that lies tyranny.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Boo Trump won, let's look for confirmation bias...oh look over here at what Sir Winston had to say, never mind that Obama removed his bust from a prominent display in the White House.

O look a binary brained response.

Because i am not a die hard Trump cultists that makes me a obama loving democrat supporter?

Guess what your wrong.

There is more to life that two options.

I did not like Trump and I hated hillary.

Yes Trump won. He is the legal president.
That will not change for the next 4 years.


There is no arguing that.

The problem is behind the # system that resulted in a election of Trump verse Hillary......two god awful candidates and how to improve the quality of candidates in the future.

Blame it on Hillary and the Very Fake News.

Here, I will hold your hand through recent history.

Hillary used power and influence to lock out any other viable candidates to oppose her on the Democrat side.
At the same time the Hillary colluding Very Fake News did everything in their power to promote Trump with maximum air time because they thought it was funny to prop him up to destroy all of the traditional Republican candidates during the primaries.

Does that shake your memory? You have your answer, corrupt power and collusion led to the showdown and the people gave Hillary the big middle finger in too many places that voted for Obama last time.

a reply to: crazyewok

I see what you mean the 1689 constitution seems to give the right to bare Arms if you are protestant.

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;

And protection of freedom of speech

That the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;

Yale Law School

I have been over to England and I got the impression that they have pretty strict fire arm laws that you can only have firearms if you hunt and in special circumstance.


What's your current level of free speech like if you don't mind me asking are there any present restrictions on it?

Sorry for being Nosey I'm just curious and like to learn new things especially about other nations and their perspective on things.

One thing that stuck in my mind about England was the Customs agent at the Airport was really polite and friendly
yet when I returned to my country it felt like the total opposite like I was being rudely questioned by some thuggish person before being allowed to enter into the nation I was born in.

I know that England has increased security to prevent terrorism but it did feel less like a police state at the airport there compared to the TSA here. Although I was creeped out by all the CCTV cameras everywhere.

a reply to: crazyewok

I rather like the way the Iriquois did it .... The 'leaders' were all men but only women could vote for them. Plays to the strenghts (weaknesses?) of each gender. Women also had the right to call for a 'vote of confidence' at any time.

On a practical side - which I don't believe is even possible any longer - elections need to be 100% publically funded with no - no participation of outside groups. Then you could try different methods of governing on a trial basis and keep what works for the 'people' and get rid of what doesn't. I would include doing away with political parties altogether along with using public funds. That's just the bearist outline, I do realize it would be a complex and difficult change. I also believe that 'moneied interests' have enough power now to make any such change impossible. The small attempts have been hamstrung by 'exceptions'. The "money = speech" doctrine would have to go - it being right out of the 'corporate' playbook.

Bring back one 'person' - one 'vote' rather then the current one 'dollar' equals one 'vote'. Our current electoral paradigm is biased (as with all things in a 'free-market' society) on wealth of individuals (real or legal fictions) rather then inherent value.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Yeah I was amazed when I first learned the Iroquois had a democracy in north america

long before the foundation of the united states.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Boo Trump won, let's look for confirmation bias...oh look over here at what Sir Winston had to say, never mind that Obama removed his bust from a prominent display in the White House.

O look a binary brained response.

Because i am not a die hard Trump cultists that makes me a obama loving democrat supporter?

Guess what your wrong.

There is more to life that two options.

I did not like Trump and I hated hillary.

Yes Trump won. He is the legal president.
That will not change for the next 4 years.


There is no arguing that.

The problem is behind the # system that resulted in a election of Trump verse Hillary......two god awful candidates and how to improve the quality of candidates in the future.

Blame it on Hillary and the Very Fake News.

Here, I will hold your hand through recent history.

Hillary used power and influence to lock out any other viable candidates to oppose her on the Democrat side.
At the same time the Hillary colluding Very Fake News did everything in their power to promote Trump with maximum air time because they thought it was funny to prop him up to destroy all of the traditional Republican candidates during the primaries.

Does that shake your memory? You have your answer, corrupt power and collusion led to the showdown and the people gave Hillary the big middle finger in too many places that voted for Obama last time.

No need to hold my hand.

For once I totaly agree with you.

Corruption with in the democrats is a huge factor of why the usa got the douche and turd election last year.

a reply to: SolAquarius

Right to bare arms is now restricted after 1997. We had a lefty goverment ban them. To be honest guns where never really a thing to beguin with here. I think its a little to strict to be honest but it doesnt bother me, i legally own a hunting rifle.


As for freedom of speech thats a difficut one.
Yes and no.

I can critize any politican i want but hate speech that promotes violence is banned.

a reply to: SolAquarius

Theres generally a few types of firearms

Low powered air weapons - great for killing rats etc - just be over 18 to buy.

Shotties with 3 rounds or less require a s2 license

Shotties with more than 3 or bolt action rifles which does also includes .22 SA weapons are on a S1 license and you still have handguns but only 2 rounds for humane killing so like vets/farmers.

Everything else pretty much is a S5 thing and you'll need home office sign off.

Quite a few people do have shotgun licenses as they will borrow a friends gun and go off and fill a freezer full of stuff for the pot and you now need a license to buy shells as well but not carry them around.

Also you don't need a license for using a gun so long as you're in either visual or auditory range of someone who's supervising you with the required paperwork.

Theres other rules for places like sluaghterhouses and all the other sorts of thing but generally for the last 20 years not much complaint on the rules other than olympic pistol shooters having to go abroad to train.

Democracy is a failure. Except it spawned the greatest super power nation in the world for over 200 hundred years.

But sure, it's a total failure.

Meanwhile Qatar burns 500 million euros per week for the WC 2022. Money that could've been easily used to wipe out famine once and for all. The current world is a freaking joke.

originally posted by: crazyewok

"democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

-Winston Churchill

He is right. Democracy sucks. Left or right the candidates suck. What ever happened you end up with a choice between a douche and a giant turd.

Problem is all the other tried and tested governments have failed as well and worse. Nobody wants dictator ship or a monarchy.

So what else can be tried?

My idea would be a republic with two houses, one parted voted in by the people. But the members are not voted. Instead every 5 years they are picked by random like a jury, the number depending on the size of the country. Only rule is they have to be a born citizen and not a have a criminal record. Preferably you would pick a random person from each area.

....
Anyone got any other ideas to share? This thread is just to throw ideas out?

Mankind put a man on the moon, surely it can come up with a system of goverment that works.....or at least a improvemnt of the crap turdsanwiches we are stuck with....?

Since we have a two party system maybe we should have two executive officers? The one who wins the electoral college vote gets the power to act as the face for the country, sign executive orders, and fulfill the role as commander in chief. The other has the ability to contest the other to force a happy middle ground? Not sure it would work, but at least it would keep the craziness to a minimum.

originally posted by: SolAquarius
a reply to: FyreByrd

Yeah I was amazed when I first learned the Iroquois had a democracy in north america

long before the foundation of the united states.

It was the Iroquois Nation that inspired our government, at least initially. It still had to be Romanized to make it palatable to a European descendant.

By several accounts, before disease, the Iroquois could have gone toe to toe with the Europeans. But they were interested in trade. That was what the Dutch and French were interested in: trade for beaver pelts and trapping rights. They were a very powerful group of tribes.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yeah it's incredible.
I think they had something like a pictorial constitution.

I think I also recall that The US's revolutionary war was essentially a civil war
for the Iroquois and the five nations where split between loyalty to the colonists and
loyalty to Britain.

I could go on but don't want to get to off topic....I plan on doing a thread on Iroquois Democracy at some point
because when I learned about it my mind was blown.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Democracy is a failure. Except it spawned the greatest super power nation in the world for over 200 hundred years.

But sure, it's a total failure.

You mean the UK?

The UK was the world super power for over 200 years.

USA has only been the dominant world super since WW2.......


Anyway yes it is a failure.......just less of a failure than most other nations.

Thats the point democracy sucks but it sucks less than the other tried options.

So is there a new alternative or at least a way to improve it?