Unless It Changes, Capitalism Will Starve Humanity By 2050

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: redhorse

Right now we live in a fairly free society.

I enjoy freedoms that we have.

Many economic systems tie into government types that do not acknowledge all the freedoms I currently enjoy.

You relish in the 'freedoms' you have grown up with and have gravitated towards.
Yet you seem to ignore the sacrifices others around the world have made for your freedoms ...

Again, is this the justification you are going to use to eliminate the freedoms I currently enjoy?

originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner
Yes, we should all be doing that actually...

If everyone in the world used a flushing toilet like we do in the west, there wouldn't be enough fresh water to facilitate that.

Why do we pay money for someone to take our sh!t away, for them to clean it and sell it BACK to us as fertiliser and purified water??

It's a very wasteful system and if we all learnt how to compost our own poop and grow our own food we would have much healthier soil, more fresh water to go around and a little bit of extra cash for good measure.

Before I get back to reading the thread, I just wanted to point out composting toilets. My parents ran a farm when I was little, we had a composting crapper in the house. It never stank, and produced some really awesome fertilizer for our personal garden (we had some seriously great veggies out of it blending that with livestock manure) The big caveat today versus when I was a kid is the prescription med traces and outright chemical build-up we have going on. That's harder to deal with in a CT than a waste processing plant.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: redhorse

Right now we live in a fairly free society.

I enjoy freedoms that we have.

Many economic systems tie into government types that do not acknowledge all the freedoms I currently enjoy.

You relish in the 'freedoms' you have grown up with and have gravitated towards.
Yet you seem to ignore the sacrifices others around the world have made for your freedoms ...

Again, is this the justification you are going to use to eliminate the freedoms I currently enjoy?

F# you, I got mine, amirite? That's kind of a crappy way to base a civilization on and why a FYIGM capitalism based one won't work long-term. There is a point of no return, and automation is it. You can have all the freedoms you want, but they don't mean bupkis when production of everything is so mechanized and streamlined that there simply isn't enough work to go around for this meritocracy-based existence. That heralds the end of capitalism because it's not sustainable. Fewer workers = less money. Less money = less spending. Less spending = less revenue. less revenue = less incentive to make s#. Less incentive to make s# = less work yet again. It's a self-fulfilling thing. We can either buck tech advances and stick with worker-based living, or we can embrace tech advances, and adapt what existing really means.

Your move there, bud.

originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: soficrow

The idea of socialism and the compete government control by the bureaucrats in government is just stupid. Do you really think they have your best interests? I guess you haven't been paying attention.

I posted an article from Forbes business magazine. The article outlines a conversation that is taking place in various rarified circles. Cool if you're not interested.

originally posted by: Nyiah

Your move there, bud.

Apparently it is now "greedy" to want to keep freedoms.

0_o

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: redhorse

Right now we live in a fairly free society.

I enjoy freedoms that we have.

Many economic systems tie into government types that do not acknowledge all the freedoms I currently enjoy.

You relish in the 'freedoms' you have grown up with and have gravitated towards.
Yet you seem to ignore the sacrifices others around the world have made for your freedoms ...

Again, is this the justification you are going to use to eliminate the freedoms I currently enjoy?

I want you to explain to me what you just said there in detail.

What is the justification behind you enjoying your morning coffee while farmers slave away in South America picking beans by hand for little money,
What is the justification of you driving yourself or taking a stream lined public transit to work or the grocery store while American soldiers put their lives on the line the ME for oil.

Explain to me, and the rest of us, how that, it NOT dirty face of capitalism.
Is that freedom for you?

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Nyiah

Your move there, bud.

Apparently it is now "greedy" to want to keep freedoms.

0_o

You're totes free to shell out for cheap s# produced at the health & welfare of others as long as you so please.

But would it really kill ya to aim for better?

a reply to: strongfp

Not buying a ticket for your guilt trip.

I work for what I have. I live in a society that enjoys freedoms. I wish we had more, actually. Our freedoms are delightfully outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Don't mess with the freedoms outlined within those documents and have at whatever economic system you want.

a reply to: Nyiah

I will always aim for better.

As long as I get to stay free and enjoy my freedoms. Placing me in a cage decorated better than my current hovel is not good if it's still a cage.

Capitalism is going to usher in a more soylent era.

a reply to: Christosterone

Over inflated numbers lol

Capitalism has killed and displaced millions while capitalizing off of the needs of the working class.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I will accept any system as long as it doesn't remove any freedoms.

All structure removes freedom.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: strongfp

Not buying a ticket for your guilt trip.

I work for what I have. I live in a society that enjoys freedoms. I wish we had more, actually. Our freedoms are delightfully outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Don't mess with the freedoms outlined within those documents and have at whatever economic system you want.

It is not a guilt trip. Those documents, inspiring as they may be, are a part of the problem. They were written and implemented before our Industrial Age. Humanity faces a major challenge in harmonizing ideals and values against the ever increasing nature of Industry. Something needs to change in population, government, industry or all of the above. To be blunt your attachment to illusiory freedoms is a major part of the problem. As someone else said earlier and I am paraphrasing a bit:

Screw everyone else! I have mine and want to keep mine and I will not let anything stand in my way!!!

I understand that line of thinking. That is how humans behaved, as a whole, before Industrialization. It cannot be reconciled with the ever expanding scope of Industrialization. To mantain your freedoms you will need to sacrifice uncounted numbers of lives. In fact lives have been sacrificed.

I don't have any solutions. Please understand that I am not being judgemental or accusatory. These are the problems that we as a species face in the near future and they run much deeper than I can comprehend. I wish I had solutions.

a reply to: Humbaba

Then we will just have to disagree.

I will fight pretty hard to keep my Constitutional rights and freedoms.

So expect a fight.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I suppose so. I did my damndest to be fair. To avoid passing judgement. If all you have to say to that is to expect a fight than believe without doubt that you will have one.

ETA: Funny sig. Nice mix of Alien and (?)nonsense.

a reply to: Humbaba

You can't take away anyone's freedoms and just expect them to roll over.

It'll have to be over my dead body.

a reply to: DBCowboy

That's not what I meant and am saddened you interpret it that way. I suppose I was hoping for selflessness. Sacrifice is difficult to reoncile with the human experience(myself included).

It seems the first step to take will be in the area of population.

a reply to: Humbaba

Yeah, you'll have to reduce quite a bit of the population.


You cant just ask and expect people to give up freedoms. That's insane.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Well. I wasn't exactly asking anyone to give up anything. I was merely stating what I believe to be neccesary steps toward solving a series of problems brought on by our civilization. Please -- if you think my solutions are idealistic, problematic, completely unworkable or whatever -- I am glad to listen and debate alternatives. As I said in my 1st post I don't have the solutions.

a reply to: Humbaba

I don't have the answers.

If you can find a better system than capitalism that will fit within the framework of the Constitution, then go for it.

But you've already expressed your opinion on the Constitution so we find ourselves at odds.