Third Fukushima Robot Mission Aborted

'Scorpion' robot mission inside Fukushima reactor aborted

A "scorpion" robot sent into a Japanese nuclear reactor to learn about the damage suffered in a tsunami-induced meltdown had its mission aborted after the probe ran into trouble, Tokyo Electric Power company said Thursday.

TEPCO, the operator of the Fukushima nuclear plant, sent the remote-controlled device into the No. 2 reactor where radiation levels have recently hit record highs.

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But it could not reach its target destination beneath a pressure vessel through which nuclear fuel is believed to have melted because the robot had difficulty moving, a company spokeswoman said.

"It's not immediately clear if that's because of radiation or obstacles," she said, adding that TEPCO is checking what data the robot was able to obtain, including images.

See also:

The operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant said Thursday its attempt to retrieve data from a robot from inside the No. 2 reactor had failed possibly due to extremely high levels of radiation.

Tokyo Electric Power Company Holdings Inc. (TEPCO) said the robot was sent into the damaged reactor to gather information about highly radioactive residue from melted fuel inside the reactor.

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Before the technical failure, TEPCO said the robot sent back data that reveled the level of radiation in the air three meters from the entrance to the pressure vessel was at a lethal 210 sieverts per hour.

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TEPCO gave up trying to retrieve the robot and opted to cut its remote control cables, officials said.

Link.

And:

Robot stuck in Fukushima No. 2 reactor on 1st try, abandoned

According to the utility, the robot entered the containment vessel around 8 a.m. It traveled along a 7.2-meter-long rail connecting the outer wall of the containment vessel with its central portion immediately beneath the pressure vessel.

But about 5 meters into its mission, the robot’s controls started to become less responsive. TEPCO believes it was due to deposits and other debris that are blocking the rail entering its drive system.

The operator tugged on the electrical cable connected to the robot and had it pull back to an area along its path with less obstacles, but it ultimately became stuck there.

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With the robot completely immobilized, TEPCO gave up on retrieving it around 3 p.m. The operator cut the electric cable and closed the tunnel bored into the wall of the containment vessel, entombing the robot inside.

Looks like another bad day for TEPCO.

Mentioned in one of the articles is they can't even begin to work on inventing the technology needed to clean up the disaster, because they still don't have any idea what they are really dealing with.

I think it's safe to assume that if the cant even get cameras in there, it gonna take a long, long time.

a reply to: loam

I seriously feel like a panic attack creeping up with the latest news from there.
Thanks for sharing, a half-mast black flag and a star for you.

Someone on here mentioned mining under the melted fuel, you know, it's not such a bad idea. Drill to a few feet under the reactor and meltdown, Run in a remote controlled specially converted dumper truck and catch the crap when it eventually melts through. Run the truck out, contain the crap and bobs your uncle.

No doubt someone will come along and explain why this is a no goer.

a reply to: Soloprotocol well I was going to say what if the dumper truck idea does contain the radioactive material or if they mines underneath the reactor and another earth quake struck causing damage to the mined areas which in effect caused more problems for a possible solution to the problem

Who knows just something I thought about when I read your reply

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: loam

I seriously feel like a panic attack creeping up with the latest news from there.
Thanks for sharing, a half-mast black flag and a star for you.

the radiation will probably increase even covered in water.
At least covered in water it stays at a lower temp and doesn't burn sending radioactive particles into the air.

People maybe don't realize there are TWO main factors. radiation I think everyone understands. But people think radiation gear radiation suits block radiation.. NO.. they block the person from getting particles on them that will continue to send out radiation.. so you wash off and get all the "dirt" off.. And you don't have CONTINUED radiation exposure after the fact.

Breathe in enough radioactive material and even if they give off tiny amounts they may sit in your body cooking you from the inside out for a very long time.

This is the worst nuclear disaster.

Chernobyl spread itself out the core was everywhere.. This core is in one spot it seems.. And so nothing is going to be able to get close unless we can invent a sphere that is programmed on it's own to go in and come back out, so no control is needed.. so no signals have to get in.. That way it can be designed to not let signals come in as well. (radiation)

That reactor 2 melted down right away.. They downplayed it so hardcore. I followed people I knew could discern the facts as I am no nuclear engineer. But I knew what took place from the start.

this is really bad.

And obviously there is no off button.

the nuclear material may even be concentrating itself.. Normally it has nutron absorbing materials in between the rods.. This keeps it "controlled" But if those are not there or the explosion messed things up or it's melting together better...

Chernobyl is predicted to be cleaned up in the next 100 years..

IT's a MUCH easier job than fukushima.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Someone on here mentioned mining under the melted fuel, you know, it's not such a bad idea. Drill to a few feet under the reactor and meltdown, Run in a remote controlled specially converted dumper truck and catch the crap when it eventually melts through. Run the truck out, contain the crap and bobs your uncle.

No doubt someone will come along and explain why this is a no goer.

first of all.. Where do you think sea level is?

That's probably your first and impossible obstacle.

look at pictures of the plant.

It's right on the "beach"

and the fuel melted down through the bottom.

and they never stopped the water the ground water from coming through out into the ocean so how would you make a tunnel that stayed dry enough for an air breathing vehicle to get in there?

and it better be a drone.. How do you get signal?

because that level of radiation is deadly in under one minute. It doesn't kill you in one minute, but be there one minute and you will die in 2 weeks. You can't survive it even in tiny doses. it's like 570 Sieverts. that's insanity.. Death row inmates who want something to redeem there self for? maybe? but its gross how fast it will mess you up if you get close.. This is higher inside the building than chernobyl was.

It's enough with the smoke and mirrors already...

It's long past due for full admissions to beg for the world's help and a dedicated team to be formed and comitted to finding a solution...

The ugly truth is they know they can't do anything...

I think it's time to push nano bot tech development I really believe a solution could be found here...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I don't know the solution could be a new shielding. Why would smaller be helpful? It fries even faster.

Maybe produce something like graphene, but from led, several layers of it and with a magnetic field?

a reply to: Peeple

Well small would be a good idea because they could be delivered in the water being used to cool the mass that cant be found... The water would follow its path...
Of course they would have to be designed with shielding until ready to interact with the mass and then open and deliver their payload... They could also be programmed to do do either at a given temperature or radiation level or immediately upon sensing any radiation...
They could be designed to mimic bacteria which has been found to eat radiation instead of sugars... But because they are so small also designed to react with it on atomic level during the fission process to trick the decay rate...
If this could be accomplished then a solution for cleaning the ocean would be had also...
This could be done but would require a united mammoth effort which aside from saving the World would spawn a new golden age...
Well worth the effort...
I can dream cant I?
Perhaps the answer could come from a chemical biological engineer sooner...
One thing is for sure we need leaps and bounds in advancements...

originally posted by: Reverbs

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Someone on here mentioned mining under the melted fuel, you know, it's not such a bad idea. Drill to a few feet under the reactor and meltdown, Run in a remote controlled specially converted dumper truck and catch the crap when it eventually melts through. Run the truck out, contain the crap and bobs your uncle.

No doubt someone will come along and explain why this is a no goer.

first of all.. Where do you think sea level is?

That's probably your first and impossible obstacle.

look at pictures of the plant.

It's right on the "beach"

If the plant is sitting on Rock they might just get away with it without water pouring into the tunnel. As for the air breathing vehicle, Whatever they send down could be extracted by machinery from the outside..ie, put the collection vehicle on rails and drag that crap out.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

and then what? you have any idea how radioactive this stuff is? it will melt right through the truck, it would fry the systems that keep the truck running, the truck wouldnt live long enough to travel 10 feet. the driver of the truck would be dead in seconds, if you try to automate the truck the wires would melt off in minutes as they have on every robot sent to check out the mass.
lets say hypothetically you get a magical truck that could withstand this stuff. it drives out of the tunnel then what? now this stuff is even more exposed to the atmosphere and the surrounding country, where you gonna take it? maybe find an active volcano on an uninhabited island to dump it into? bury it somewhere else? seems no matter what you do its just gonna do the same thing and find a way to burrow down through the planet.

lets all take a moment to reflect on how much effort the nuclear industry put into convincing the public that nuclear energy is so much safer then burning oil or coal.....

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: Soloprotocol

and then what? you have any idea how radioactive this stuff is? it will melt right through the truck, it would fry the systems that keep the truck running, ..

I said..A specially converted truck, I also said that the truck could be a collection vehicle on rails that drags that crap out by external means...ie, rail track and tow cables. If they can get under the reactor i could draw up the plans in minutes...

Lets here your plans to attempt to fix this.?

here..

These Japanese and their obsession with robots. What about a very long endoscope? No camera just an optical cable with a lense and a chemical source of light at the end.

In case it's too far I'd suggest a robot with an endoscope.
phase 2 is endoscopic removal.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

I like your endoscope idea. That's a good one. I have been thinking along similar lines, that a simpler mechanical approach to getting in there and looking around might be better than all the robots. I wonder if it's been tried yet? The endoscope thing, that is.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: Soloprotocol

and then what? you have any idea how radioactive this stuff is? it will melt right through the truck, it would fry the systems that keep the truck running, ..

I said..A specially converted truck, I also said that the truck could be a collection vehicle on rails that drags that crap out by external means...ie, rail track and tow cables. If they can get under the reactor i could draw up the plans in minutes...

Lets here your plans to attempt to fix this.?

here..

The idea of digging a tunnel under the reactor has some merit and it's something they actually did in Chernobyl.

chernobylgallery.com...

It was first necessary to build a cooling slab under the reactor to prevent the hot nuclear fuel from burning through the foundations. Four hundred coal miners were called upon to dig the required tunnel below the reactor and by June 24 the necessary 168 metre long tunnel was in place.

The reason it won't work at Fukushima as already mentioned by Reverbs is that the water table is too high so any tunnel you dig will be mostly filled with water right away.

In fact the unsung hero in this event is Hirai Yanosuke who refused to allow cost saving measures in the construction of the Ongawa nuclear plant to be built so close to sea level, and he insisted on a 14.8 meter breakwater. He insisted that his plant had to be built at a higher elevation, and that's part of the reason it didn't experience the same disaster as the Fukushima daiichi plant even though it was actually closer to the earthquake and tsunami, so the real problems with the Fukushima Daiichi site date all the way back to its construction and cost-savings decisions made at that time:

en.wikipedia.org...

According to Reuters the Onagawa nuclear power plant was the closest nuclear power plant to the March 2011 earthquake epicenter. All three reactors at the power plant successfully withstood the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami, demonstrating the ability of a well designed nuclear facility to withstand even one of the most powerful of megathrust earthquakes and tsunamis ever recorded and to shut down safely, as designed, without incident.

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
lets all take a moment to reflect on how much effort the nuclear industry put into convincing the public that nuclear energy is so much safer then burning oil or coal.....

As the Onagawa plant shows, it's not impossible to build a safe facility, but there will always be some penny-pinching accountant trying to save a small coin who ends up causing the disaster, or inadequately trained personnel like in three mile island and Chernobyl who if they didn't make stupid mistakes and just let the installed safety equipment operate normally those disasters would have never happened.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Of course they would have to be designed with shielding until ready to interact with the mass and then open and deliver their payload...

So they will work for 3 nanoseconds after opening the shielding?

Smaller doesn't make sense in this case to me. If you need more shielding, it has to be thicker shielding, and thicker means bigger, not smaller. However it looks like they are deploying these through small openings so that's apparently a size limitation they are working with as well.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: Soloprotocol

and then what? you have any idea how radioactive this stuff is? it will melt right through the truck, it would fry the systems that keep the truck running, ..

I said..A specially converted truck, I also said that the truck could be a collection vehicle on rails that drags that crap out by external means...ie, rail track and tow cables. If they can get under the reactor i could draw up the plans in minutes...

Lets here your plans to attempt to fix this.?

i addressed what you said in the portion of my post that you skipped right over, here it is again for you

originally posted by: NobodiesNormal
a reply to: Soloprotocol
lets say hypothetically you get a magical truck that could withstand this stuff. it drives out of the tunnel then what? now this stuff is even more exposed to the atmosphere and the surrounding country, where you gonna take it? maybe find an active volcano on an uninhabited island to dump it into? bury it somewhere else? seems no matter what you do its just gonna do the same thing and find a way to burrow down through the planet.

lets all take a moment to reflect on how much effort the nuclear industry put into convincing the public that nuclear energy is so much safer then burning oil or coal.....

the point that the actual experts in the industry are making and have been warning of for over 40 years, is there is no plan for this scenario, its game over man, theres nothing can be done

a reply to: TheBadCabbie

...and I'm not sure why they can't drill the stuff out to store smaller rollers in non-leaking containers.
You know, like drilling an ice core with a hollow drill.