Geraldo Rivera quits Yale over college name change --"political correctness is lame"

a reply to: seasonal

Don't you see, this isn't washing out anything. You yourself have said you knew next to nothing of John Calhoun prior to this, now you do.

This isn't washing it out, it's bringing it out into the light of day, where cockroaches, like Calhoun, and his current ilk, don't like to go.

The bigotry of the past, whether it was "the thing" back in the day should be condemned by those living a better way, so that perhaps those who would bring back the past, can't.

a reply to: seasonal

If that is what the people of the United States want? Then, yes. Peaceful protest. Peaceful change. It doesn't change the history, it shows that perhaps we're capable of learning lessons from it.

Now would I be in favor of changing the name of DC? I'd have to think about that, long and hard...and what the new name might be.

a reply to: ketsuko

...nope. See, my ego isn't that big, or out of control, that I would need a building named after me. I see your point, and don't necessarily disagree.

I judge these things on a case by case basis. If the building were to be named after Mother Teresa, I'd probably disagree with the name being changed. In this instance, a reprehensible mans attempt at immortality is being, at least somewhat, damaged, and I'm all for it.

The change was brought about by peaceful protest, the college acquiesced. IMHO, no one is in the wrong here. They aren't. You aren't. I'm certainly not!! It was settled as it should have been. Peacefully.

a reply to: seasonal

The next time I call anyone a Nazi for the horrible crime of disagreeing with me, it'll be the first time.

a reply to: seasonal

Why? Because they disagree with you? For that they should be arrested, and expelled from school?

Rather draconian, don't you think?

a reply to: seagull

Calhoun was more than likely (culturally) an average joe in his time.

If he lived to day he would more than likely be an average joe.

If you apply what we think is civil today to Washington, Jefferson, Patton, and Bugs Bunny, you can see your thinking is flawed.

Don't hold people to standards that they did not know about, this is not Back to the Future.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

This isn't an example of critical thought, reason, debate, the enlightenment, nor democracy, the very things these kids should be learning. This is an example of progressivism, activism, disruption, iconoclasm, groupthink and mob threat against history, language and other people's property.

Do you think you understand what the word sanctimonious means?

You have an opinion - a point of view

You don't approve of some people's behavior

So what?

Im not sure why you always end up making it about me instead of the topic, but once again, I'm flattered. To be honest, maybe debating things like this isn't your thing, because you cannot seem to keep your opponent out of your mouth.

So what, indeed. I suppose this affects no one, so who cares?

a reply to: seagull

NO becasue they were on private property.

Good God man or women, look over my responses. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is a cornerstone to my freedom.

a reply to: seasonal

Didn't you say this, in regards to the protesters?

The best thing they could have did was tell the protestors to leave, call the police and expel them from their over priced college.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Im not sure why you always end up making it about me instead of the topic, but once again, I'm flattered. To be honest, maybe debating things like this isn't your thing, because you cannot seem to keep your opponent out of your mouth.

See what you did right there? This is why. Read through your own posts...

Meanwhile, I said:

Do you think you understand what the word sanctimonious means? You have an opinion - a point of view You don't approve of some people's behavior So what?

You had just criticized people for being sanctimonious - while being sanctimonious

You have an opinion. So do I. So what? How many thousands of times here at ATS have you said pretty much that same thing?

:-)

ETA: on topic - Students protesting - citizens protesting. It seems to rub some people the wrong way. Democracy makes it possible to have this freedom. Large groups of people loudly making demands is bound to make some people angry even when it's done peacefully and without incident

Some people prefer to pick at that right little by little - that's also a right

Seems to me that it took quite some time to get this name changed. It didn't happen over night and it didn't happen violently. So, what we're left with is some people believing that people shouldn't want what they want

Its an interesting position

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

There are some people who believe protesting should not be reserved for speaking for the voiceless, or raising awareness of tyranny or oppression, but to pressure authorities to change language and history. Interesting position. But that's not democracy; that's ochlocracy.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: ketsuko

...nope. See, my ego isn't that big, or out of control, that I would need a building named after me. I see your point, and don't necessarily disagree.

I judge these things on a case by case basis. If the building were to be named after Mother Teresa, I'd probably disagree with the name being changed. In this instance, a reprehensible mans attempt at immortality is being, at least somewhat, damaged, and I'm all for it.

Not to mention that Grace Murray Hopper (I met her once!) is hands down the coolest science-nerd Navy admiral ever! She claimed humorously that she had caught the very first computer bug (after a real moth caused havoc in the relays - you can see the moth and her report at this link.) I'd rather have a building named after someone who accomplished notable scientific or social things than have it named for someone who accumulated a lot of money or owned a sports team.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope


“To me the real issue is context,” said Rabb, now an educator and state representative in Pennsylvania. “How do you contextualize the choice made in the 1930s” – when the college was founded – “and the choice it made ever since to keep it?

“What does it mean now in terms of Yale’s connections to slavery and issues of social and racial justice in a diverse city?”

University officials said on Saturday that the school will not remove symbols of Calhoun on campus, such as engravings and a statue that tops the landmark Harkness Tower. It also will not discourage alumni if they want to continue associating with the Calhoun name instead of that of Grace Hopper College.

In 2016, after sustained discussion and controversy, the Yale corporation decided to retain the name.

“The decision to change a college’s name is not one we take lightly,” the Yale president, Peter Salovey, said on Saturday. “But John C Calhoun’s legacy as a white supremacist and a national leader who passionately promoted slavery as a ‘positive good’ fundamentally conflicts with Yale’s mission and values.”

There are some people who believe protesting should not be reserved for speaking for the voiceless, or raising awareness of tyranny or oppression, but to pressure authorities to change language and history. Interesting position. But that's not democracy; that's ochlocracy.

Ochlocracy? Were they afraid to not change the name then? Were there torches - pitchforks - guns? Or just words?

Interesting disconnect. Tyranny and oppression - the voiceless...these things don't exist here in present day America? Just authority that should never be pressured to change

I'd love to hear your actual argument for why the name Calhoun should remain - forever. It was meant to honor him. Should we honor people forever - just because of tradition and history? They should deserve our respect here in the present too I think

Dachau remains so that we never forget. But nobody goes to school at Dachau, and people don't preserve Dachau to honor Himmler

a reply to: Byrd

I remember reading that somewhere, too. First computer bug...that's worthy of a chuckle or four.

She's a wholly admirable (see what I did there?) person. I'd have loved to have met her. She'd make a wonderful life model for kids to emulate.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ochlocracy

I'd never seen that word 'til today. My vocabulary increases!! Always a good thing in my book.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Interesting disconnect. Tyranny and oppression - the voiceless...these things don't exist here in present day America? Just authority that should never be pressured to change

I don't know why that question is necessary, because I didn't argue anything like it.

I'd love to hear your actual argument for why the name Calhoun should remain - forever. It was meant to honor him. Should we honor people forever - just because of tradition and history? They should deserve our respect here in the present too I think

It should stay the same because that is the name of the building. The history needs to be confronted, not erased.

Yale already had to capitulate to protesters by eliminating the title "master" for faculty, because these "students" conflated the meanings of "an owner of slaves" and a "skilled practitioner". They are so injured by their own misapprehension of words that only eliminating the word, and not their own irrationality, can cure it. But I would rather 1million irrational thoughts die before one word is eliminated from speech.

Where does it end? My name? Your name?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Where does it end? My name? Your name?

Give me a break - nobody gives a rat's ass about either of us

The building was named after someday we no longer honor

He will be remembered, history was confronted - and left intact

a reply to: seagull

You can thank fancy pants LesMisanthrope for your new word - not me :-)

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I saw that, but after I'd posted oops.

Credit to LesMisanthrope, too.

There now, we're all friends, again...?

a reply to: seagull

That was just me giving Les credit for a word I've never used either

I'm a lover Seagull - not a fighter