Rethinking Ancient Egypt - On Cataclysms, Ancient Technology and Identity Theft

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
1...because you cant cut it with a apple .

you can cut it with pretty much anything, its very soft and easily worked and doesn't require advanced machinery, its like saying "Our advanced tools are so powerful, now we will demonstrate them on the softest stone we can find"

2 one that would have been around during or after the Nazi's came to be .

The Nazis, those guys who were known to build big stone bunkers all over Europe ?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Marduk

All of that is way over my pay scale and I suspect for the most part of the members . May be you could scoot over and settle the matter for the guys . I am sure they would appreciate it and the coffee and donuts are the best

If you have a question about these, do ask. Probably best done in the science area, though (remind us if you do) rather than here since it's not exactly ancient history.

...and no, not above my pay grade. The one on objective vs subjective makes some solid arguments and I rather like their suggestions.

originally posted by: jeep3r

originally posted by: Byrd
They're worked in granite, which is fairly difficult to work (unless you're doing large inscriptions). The Shabaka stone shows that even royal workshops with the finest tools and materials struggled with granite.

That's quite interesting, although one would assume that the builders of the boxes wouldn't have any problems with the inscriptions.

Does anyone on here know how to explain the distinct patterns on the plateau right next to the unfinished obelisk. These square patches don't necessarily look like the result of pounding (note the obelisk in the lower right corner):

I've seen that in Egypt. It's the result of pounding in one spot with a pounding stone. Remember, there's more than one person working on this stone at once (you would have a crew of 20 men or more.)

And another artifact mentioned in the video features regular curved striations potentially caused by some kind of tool with an enormous diameter:

I recall that Flinders Petrie did not rule out the possibility of huge circular saws? If those were used, then another question would be if bronze blades with quartz as an abbrasive would do the trick...

Can't tell what you're looking at and don't want to sit through 15 minutes of video just to guess. Could be bronze saw marks, though.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1

As I said, I don't do videos. Looked at bits and pieces of the second one, and it actually appears to be a natural formation... you can see the bedding planes rather clearly in some of the spots. We do get caves with this kind of fracture (I've seen it in one of the adjunct caves in Mammoth Cave in Kentucky and at other show caves.

A geologist could tell you more, but it's not manmade.

a reply to: Byrd

I've seen that in Egypt. It's the result of pounding in one spot with a pounding stone.

Marduk said

you can cut it with pretty much anything, its very soft and easily worked and doesn't require advanced machinery

Given the choices to hewing stone ,the pounding looks slow and painful .I had come up in my imagination a long rope passing through the middle of these pounding stones while turning . Think of a string of stones spinning and abrasive sand and water . kind of like grinding . But seeing saw cuts on many stones, why use pounding ...

Any idea on how and where the stones at Göbekli Tepe may have come from ?

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Harte

So you recommend that we all celebrate ignorance. Sorry. Not me.

This is a good example of what could be wrong . If you can find where I said such a thing in my post then you get a prize .

Wouldn't take a prize, but sure...

Being a little thinned skin is no help either I suppose ,but like you say what would I know about anything .At least I have a excuse . I don have a instructor to tell me what my opinion is or should be

Instructors don't form my opinion, Byrd's opinion, or Marduk's opinion. The opinions we express are formed by facts - something you get from instructors because they've already been found.
See - we weren't there for the discovery of the Rosetta Stone (for example,) so knowledge about it comes from instructors.

Except for you, of course. You celebrate the fact that you know nothing about it - and demonstrate the same through posting here on the subject and berating others for their education.

Harte

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Byrd

I've seen that in Egypt. It's the result of pounding in one spot with a pounding stone.

Marduk said

you can cut it with pretty much anything, its very soft and easily worked and doesn't require advanced machinery

Given the choices to hewing stone ,the pounding looks slow and painful .I had come up in my imagination a long rope passing through the middle of these pounding stones while turning . Think of a string of stones spinning and abrasive sand and water . kind of like grinding . But seeing saw cuts on many stones, why use pounding ...

Because you can't get a saw across a section of granite embedded in a quarry bed.

These marks show (among other things) how they quarried granite, not how they finished it. Pounders were used in the initial smoothing step though, to make a start at leveling the surface. You can see them on the top surface of the unfinished obelisk you mentioned - at one end. Toward the other end you can see that they had it pretty smooth at the time the thing cracked and they abandoned it. I'd post the pic here, but I use an ad blocker and ATS punishes me for that by not letting me post pics. I'll link you unfinished obelisk scalloping

Harte

a reply to: Harte

You celebrate the fact that you know nothing about it - and demonstrate the same through posting here on the subject and berating others for their education.

Its not a celebration of not knowing anything about it . I was conceding to your statement that I knew nothing about anything . I am surprised that you would waist your time with such a person .Do you feel the need to look good to others by comparing what you know about something while others may know less then nothing ?

I know some pretty dumb educated people .I also know some very smart uneducated people .I can learn something from both. I can't be told by either .Autodidacticism is my bag .It wasn't a choice I made .Sorry if you felt berated for your education .I hope it serves you well .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Byrd

I've seen that in Egypt. It's the result of pounding in one spot with a pounding stone.

Marduk said

you can cut it with pretty much anything, its very soft and easily worked and doesn't require advanced machinery

Given the choices to hewing stone ,the pounding looks slow and painful .I had come up in my imagination a long rope passing through the middle of these pounding stones while turning . Think of a string of stones spinning and abrasive sand and water . kind of like grinding . But seeing saw cuts on many stones, why use pounding ...

There are illustrations showing that they bound the stones to wooden sticks, making hammers out of them. Here's an archive page showing some of these tools at use and the things they produced - it's focused on vases but the techniques were applied to other stones. The table gives examples of what stones worked what.

Any idea on how and where the stones at Göbekli Tepe may have come from ?

Only vaguely familiar with Gobekli Tepe... as far as I know, it's local limestone.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
Autodidacticism is my bag

And there you go with yet another claim without supporting evidence

a reply to: Marduk

And there you go with yet another claim without supporting evidence

I couldn't quantify it ...I suck at math too . eta You should really get that flag stat taken care of . Talk to a mod ,you can have half of mine

originally posted by: [post=21902061]
Any idea on how and where the stones at Göbekli Tepe may have come from ?

Göbekli Tepe is situated on a limestone plateau, and you're asking, where did they get the limestone

a reply to: Marduk

and you're asking, where did they get the limestone

more of a how then where because they can move and cut them so easy that someone could have been a peddler of stones back in the day.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Marduk

and you're asking, where did they get the limestone

more of a how then where because they can move and cut them so easy that someone could have been a peddler of stones back in the day.

Stone pounders and flint tools. The limestone is reasonably soft and if you look at some pics of the site closely, you can see the carvings and the stones are a rough finish - indicating pecking with stone to carve.

Flint tools and stone hammers have been found there, and at several other similar sites in the area that are only a couple of thousand years younger.

Harte

I have always wondered why there isn't research being done on weather or not the Egyptians used animals to help move these stones. They could have used a method similar to portage. That's when you lay down long round shaped objects such as tree logs or even craved stone logs and a dozen men drag 1000s of pounds across them. It's famously used to drag ships from one river across land to another river. I mean think about it, and ask yourself why wouldn't they have used animal labor?


And as far as the "drill" holes go. We know they had slaves . They could have made a slave use a round stone harder than limestone and just spun it by hand till they dropped. Then just make the next slave do the same thing till you have a nice deep hole.

a reply to: Harte

Last I heard was that there is still a lot not uncovered .Imagine them digging up a STIHL TS 700 .

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Harte

Last I heard was that there is still a lot not uncovered .Imagine them digging up a STIHL TS 700 .

and the required electricity was where ?

originally posted by: scraedtosleepand ask yourself why wouldn't they have used animal labor?.

They did in later times, but at the time of the great pyramid, they had thousands of farmers doing nothing for six months and few animals, you make use of the resources you have

And as far as the "drill" holes go. We know they had slaves . They could have made a slave use a round stone harder than limestone and just spun it by hand till they dropped. Then just make the next slave do the same thing till you have a nice deep hole.

You've been lied to by Hollywood, slaves were expensive and highly valued, be a bit like off roading in a Ferrari. We know how they did that, they used a copper cylinder and sand.

a reply to: Marduk

and the required electricity was where ?

The TS 700 is a gas saw .No batteries required

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Marduk

and the required electricity was where ?

The TS 700 is a gas saw .No batteries required

oh easy then, they just popped down to the WAWA and got a canister