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A question to Liberals in the UK and USA over refugees?

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posted on Feb, 12 2017 @ 06:18 PM

originally posted by: crazyewok

Do you deny there is a crime increase in Germany and Sweden where refugees have been let in en mass?

If you increase the population, you'll automatically increase the number of crimes.

It doesn't matter how you increase that population.

It could be legal immigration, it could just be by encouraging families to have more children, so increase the birth rate.

However you do it, you'll get more crime.

posted on Feb, 12 2017 @ 07:04 PM
a reply to: Christosterone

You can shove all of the "you, your," blaming crap. I'm not from Iran and I have no connection to what happened there. If you can blame me for that, then I can all blame all Christians for the near annihilation of my Muscogee/Creek bloodlines right here in the US.

ETA: And your post has nothing to do with my post or with the topic of this thread. But it's funny how far you went out of your way to insert your biases into a topic that's completely unrelated.
edit on 12-2-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 12 2017 @ 07:07 PM
a reply to: AMPTAH

Not to mention, I've yet to see any proof that immigrants and/or refugees commit more crimes than the citizens of those countries. In fact, I'd guess the actual citizens commit far more crimes on a daily basis, such as robberies, embezzlement, murder, drug related crimes, etc. But people always like to point at the scapegoats so they don't have to confront the massive elephant in the room.

posted on Feb, 12 2017 @ 07:16 PM
a reply to: crazyewok

"Should not the politicians who caused the problem in the ME be the first to pay and house them before any innocent member of the public is forced to make sacrifices"

You mean the U.S. govt?, I jest but really it's true to some degree.

Nothing wrong with funding refugee camps via foreign aid.
How many..damn I just don't know..for smarter people than me to determine.
Paying for them..doesn't bother me if I pay an extra few bucks in taxes to help..hopefully the aforementioned foreign aid is a thing.
I don't think the kind of vetting has happened in Europe that IS happening in N America despite all the hysteria.
I don't see why anyone's standard of living has to drop..why would it?
edit on 12-2-2017 by vonclod because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 13 2017 @ 07:31 AM
a reply to: crazyewok

I believe that it is not appropriate to turn refugees away, given that it is not private money that paid for the destruction of their homeland, but OUR money, taxpayers money. It was our votes that elected the cretins who propagate war in our name, our apathy which has prevented us even now, from ousting ANY war peddlers from our governments, from putting the boot of the people on the neck of the MIC, in order that every action taken by our armed forces has the ratification and agreement of the people who pay for it.

These things are our collective fault, because we failed to act on information we had and have had for years, that being that our governments are not owned by, subservient to, or the issue of the people, but largely selected and manhandled by corporate interests which have bound up all the world in service to greed, rather than to morality and ethics, or to the people of the countries they allege to represent.

As to the standard of living of native persons, or at least actual citizens of a given nation, no, they should not accept a standard of living drop. They should however, force their governments to provide support to refugees, both in and out of country, out of money that would otherwise be spent on military and intelligence actions, many of which must straight up CEASE, since the vast majority of them at the moment, are designed to prolong a senseless war for profit, without any moral or ethical justification what so ever. I assure you that Britain, and without a doubt America, could adequately fund support efforts, by simply dedicating the portion of the defence budget that would have gone into another failed war front, to improving the lot of survivors of our corporate backed violence.

Also, regarding the increase in crime in Germany and Sweden, yes, there have been increases in criminal activity, which you would expect with any increase in population, regardless of the origins of the recent additions to the total.

Also, yes, ideally the political establishments which have created these circumstances, ought to be the ones to pay for all the corrective and supportive measures that we take, to aid the victims of OUR apathy. However, that would require that we actually had revolutions, arrested all current and former government members from the past seventy plus years (any who remain alive that is), all current and former owners of PMC companies, all current and former investors, shareholders, executives and bagmen for the MIC, the entire fabric of the secret services of both America, the UK, and most of the contributing nations to the Five Eyes intelligence network, followed by the liquidation of all their assets, and the distribution of those assets amongst the victims at home and abroad, of their callous disregard for human life, peace on this planet, not to mention the honour of the citizens they allege to represent.

I am all for that, but I doubt that enough of our countrymen would agree with me to make it work here in the UK, and I am similarly doubtful of the US in that regard. Simply put, its too much work, requires too much compassion, and far too much risk. It is however, the right thing to do, and therefore the only thing to do.

posted on Feb, 13 2017 @ 08:03 AM

originally posted by: AMPTAH
Do you deny there is a crime increase in Germany and Sweden where refugees have been let in en mass?

It's whether you get a disproportionate increase in crime. The contention is that - based on evidence - crime in Sweden and Germany has increased greater than what would be natural with the native population, particularly in sexual crimes, violence and "petty" criminality. Oh, let's not forget that the fact being an illegal immigrant is a crime in its own right!

Also the dilemma of yes/no crimes, such as where the girl under-aged in (say) the Netherlands, but is married! Should the Dutch let what constitutes child abuse continue with the excuse that it's the cultural norm of the migrants?

Anyway... There are plenty of sources that provide evidence of the disproportionate increase in crime that has followed on the heels of the migrants entering Italy, Greece, Austria, Germany and Sweden, to name a few nations directly impacted. Plus, the under-age bride example is true.

BBC report Sept 2016

Should a 14-year-old married girl who migrates to Europe be viewed as a child - or a spouse?

edit on 13/2/2017 by paraphi because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 13 2017 @ 08:59 AM

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: neo96
What I wan't to know is how is there any refugees left over there.

Between Europe, and other middle eastern countries.

There can't be that many left.


That has to be one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read on ATS.

O.P - Ultimately WE the people end up paying either through the bombs that has displaced these people or having to offer them refuge.

What makes me angry more than anything is people voting in a Government who decide to bomb a country into oblivion and then the very same people who voted in said Government, cannot see that they have any responsibility in dealing with the aftermath.

When you ask who should be responsible for paying for it, ultimately WE the people have to pay. First for the bombs and then for taking responsibility for the displaced people. It's called Taxation.

As DB has already said, it's B.S and I would add, absolutely beyond the pale.

The so called alt-right americans are made up mostly of hypocritical grumpy small town senior citizens.
They won't take any responsibility for the mess their previous elected leaders have caused because they didn't vote for them. However, when so called isis commits terror the alt righters come out and blame every muslim in the world for actions of a fringe terrorist group eventhough muslims never voted for Isis to represent them.

posted on Feb, 13 2017 @ 09:44 AM
a reply to: paraphi

Do you know why they used the age of 14 as an example? It's because 15 and 16yr old girls can already legally get married throughout Europe as long as they have parental consent (the minimum age depends on the country). There's a good chart in this link:

Spain raises minimum marriage age to 16: How it compares with rest of Europe

Bestiality and animal brothels are still legal and/or socially accepted in some European countries like Finland, Hungary, Germany & Denmark. I don't get your selective outrage about supposed under aged brides. So it's odd to me that this is the relationship-related subject that you consider an "issue".

ETA: I'm neither defending nor attacking the marriageable age issue, btw. I just don't think it's really an issue when compared to what's already legal there.
edit on 13-2-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)

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