3 E-2Cs damaged just before deployment

a reply to: Zaphod58

I had never heard of JOAP. Interesting program.

a reply to: Miracula2

When we had fighters go through Hickam, the first thing they'd do is take an oil sample, and run it over to the lab on Pearl Harbor, so they could have the report back before departing the next morning.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Phoenix

Someone ordered the wrong oil from the supply chain, and the ramp guys didn't double check it before putting it in. Probably the supply number was similar to oil used for something else, and someone just punched the wrong number in when they placed the order. Since they've had the right oil for year after year, no one double checked and they just assumed it was the right oil again.

Bumped, and ow. Imagine the verbal keelhauling though...
OMG I hope they don't find the slipper, he'll eat a glass one.

Can personally scale that down to the dirt racer, Zaph.. and
it's as mortifying an experience for a mega tight tolerance
350 Chev as well. Stupid is as stupid ME.

That cost us a couple of weekends and yours truly a few
c-notes for bearings and a crank regrind.
Yeah, please laugh-- the main journals had surfaces like
well done peanut brittle. And da nuts stickin' throo...

To err is human, to fire it up anyway is demonic sometimes.
EDIT: The check for viscosity/acid or other tramp in the oil
is a great move. But this old dirt farmer had just one plastic
screw top of ... yeah, it was 20 points too thick, fool. [/kick]

a reply to: Zaphod58

Three E-2Cs that were scheduled to deploy aboard the George Bush late last month had to undergo engine changes just before the ship sailed. Two days before the ship sailed, the three aircraft were found to have had the wrong oil installed in their engines, causing both engines to require changing.

The wrong oil?

The wrong oil?!?

I'm speechless.

These guys/gals ought to be able to do something as simple as this blindfolded, drunk & handcuffed.

God, I hope there's some sort of explanation other than incompetence.

Most of the Navy folks I work with are ONI. All smart, dedicated people.

This kind of stuff must make them physically ill...

a reply to: Riffrafter

See? There was a legitimate reason for my pulling hair out.

I have seen that happen in the commercial world but its usually only a quart or two, and most times because of oil type changes being mandated before all engines and APU's have been correctly placarded. It can get confusing when multiple types may chop and change, or the engines require say 2197 but the APU now uses MJ2. Unlike your car in a gas turbine you almost never drain out the oil system, you just keep topping it up. Unless the motor is in for major overhaul on the modules and/or the gearbox has been replaced you just dont do it. Maybe that is where these engines had been? In which case in a workshop environment that is even harder to fathom.

LEE.

Man, some rough comments here.

You think those sailors intentionally put the wrong oil in those motors? The mechs that I had busted their butt every day. I trusted them with my life and they did an amazing job. In fact, the only time we would have any troubles was when they were so focused on helping us get the mission done, that they rushed or missed things.

We had the broadest mix of Americans I could ever imagine, and they came together as an amazing team.

A few things I learned in Naval Aviation:
1. the mechanics will do whatever it takes to get that aircraft up and flying, and to help it return safely.
2. Everyone wants the missions to succeed.
3. Nobody has enough resources, and we never wanted to complain about NOT being able to accomplish the mission
4. Safety trumps almost everything (unless Marines are dying on the ground)
5. Don't bring up a problem that you don't have a solution for.

There are more, but my mechanics were amazing at resource management, dedication and professionalism.

a reply to: cosmania

It was usually the flight engineers that were complete asshat morons in my experience.

Hey Hey I was an FE... I always tried to take care of Maintenance since I really didnt want to die..

I will share a little story ( I have no idea the situation in the navy just showing how it possibly could have happened)...

Everyone remember sequestration , here is a secret... the cuts were not made at the upper levels, it was all at the worker bee level to lower management.

Now on to the story...

While deployed the team I was on was one of the more experienced at that location so we would turn 3-4 planes a night (I worked on Heavies) This usually took a few hours each, on occasion we would have to get re-tasked mid job having to leave a less experienced group to continue the work.

One night we were pulled off an HPO (long arsed inspection much more in depth than just turning planes) it got turned over to a less experienced group and they screwed the pooch, put the wrong fluid in the landing gear struts... kind of a big deal.

Now before the arm chair generals get themselves into a frenzy... this was nearly 6 months (for them) into their deployment working 6 on 1 off 16+ hours a day... when you are not getting adequate sleep it is very easy to make a simple mistake that in airplanes can be catastrophic..

Now I do not know if they are working long hours or not, or the guy responsible was out partying the night before... or heck possibly even a new guy sent to do the job before being properly trained (seen that happen as well).

Sometimes stuff happens... and sometimes it happens for reasons outside the persons control. (management working you to death)

I dunno thats my 2 cents worth.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Sorry, should have specified NAVY FEs. One of the worst ever was with an LC-130. It had been in Antarctica for 14 years, and was heading to the Depot for essentially a total rebuild.

They departed, and were 15 minutes before the point of no return when the oil quantity on #3 started plummeting. They shut it down and came back. The next morning they had jet shop out there to run it and look for obvious issues. Before the bleed doors closed, there was a massive puddle of oil on the ramp and they shut down. The FE sees it, and announces "that's fixable".

So jet shop gets the new engine and moves everything out to change the engine, FE announces they can't do it on the ramp, they need a hangar. So we move it in and change it. Run it, all good. They depart, right main won't retract. They get back, can't jack it on the ramp, got to have a hangar. Replace the squat switch, they find a prop leaking. Gotta have a hangar.

Replace the prop,nose strut is leaking, gotta have a hangar. At this point it's, "we've got a nose dock, deal with it". He wants a full hangar. Finally grudgingly accepts the nose dock when we tell him we're not pulling a base aircraft out for them.

Took almost two weeks to get them out. And while he was doing his gotta have a hangar routine, every other C-130 out there was doing their work on the ramp, including an RAAF C-130 that had to repack three props. All they wanted was a prop crane.

a reply to: Zaphod58

MIL-L-23699 is used in both the engine and propeller gearbox. There's a bunch of allowed substitutes in the NATOPS, so it would be pretty hard to use the wrong oil.

Their main concerns would be the seals. Some types of lubricants will literally dissolve the o-rings.

a reply to: JIMC5499

You'd think it would be. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen the wrong oil ordered. Or seen maintenance not double check because of routine.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: cosmania

It was usually the flight engineers that were complete asshat morons in my experience.

Be careful. I used to resemble that remark

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't know about now, but, when I was in our oil came in an ugly green can with yellow markings. It was very easy to tell that you had the right stuff. We used to have to puncture the cans and dump them into the PON-6.

a reply to: JIMC5499

As of 2 years ago on heavies for the USAF, red was Hydro, and green was engine oil.

Least on the 135.

a reply to: JIMC5499
I know a guy who managed the feat of tipping a couple of quarts of Skydrol into the oil tank of an RB-211. And his reply in a thick Russian accent? "Is all oil, why does it matter?"
You can guess what came next....

Being a tiddly Red Rat snork at the jetbase at Mascot some driver took off a wingtip of a visiting Russian Tupelov airliner over at International Cargo.Not too drastic but did succeed in ripping off the fuel tank dump so gave the cargo area a good flooding.When it arrived over to us at H191 it all was remade out the front on the apron.Only way the guys could remake it was pull apart the other side and mirror fabricate the parts.Damn Russian torque head screws..Crew turned up every day in thick Russian accents.Went home with a Red wingtip,Skip sticker,slab of beer and a few Penthouses.