Author of Illuminatus Trilogy and Illuminati Card SS Gaming Connection & the Devil

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am gonna correct something for you:

I suppose you should tell that to all the CatholicsMasons.

From my perspective, there are only very few real Christians left in this world. The rest follows the Catholics doctrine, and it isn't Christianity, they worship a Goddess, not Jesus. (THIS IS A FACT, not a theory.)

What utter nonsense, i was born and raised catholic, i went to a Catholic School. nuns were my teachers. the fact is Catholicism is Christianity, we accept Jesus Christ as the son of God, the Messiah and we also venerate his mother.

the only reason protestantism does not venerate Mary the same way is because Martin Luther was a vile misogynist who believed women were impure because Eve was seduced by Satan, he felt that a womans duty was to serve her husband. these are the reasons reformation Christians do not venerate Mary ... and that is an actual fact not made up nonsense

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks...Let me keep going then.

Freemasonry has it's genesis and deep historical connections to the Templars...which were ideologically in simpatico with the Cathars; Gnostic Christians whom rejected the findings of the Council of Nicea (rejection and destruction of Gnostic Gospels) along with Catholic church doctrine and the Pope's divine authority.

In short...both groups (Templars and Cathars) considered (the Pope/Catholic church) to be the physical embodiment of the anti-Christ.

Both groups also revered John the Baptist as the true founder of Christianity, as he was the FIRST to publicly declare Jesus as the true path to spiritual enlightenment.

Pope Innocent III and King Philip of France declared Catholic 'jihad' against the Templars and the Cathars...massacring the Cathars and decimating the Templars.



Does this thinking conflict with current Freemasonry historical understandings?

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Does this thinking conflict with current Freemasonry historical understandings?

See, that is the thing, there really is no historical understanding that has been codified, it is all speculative. Masonry most likely predates the Templars in some fashion by a few hundred years and despite sharing the name for several of our degrees there really is not philosophical parallels other than the main ones we use elsewhere, fidelity, brotherly love, charity, relief, truth.

As for the Pope, and other religious figures, Masonry again is silent, it really has nothing to say on how you see them as long as you recognize the Supreme Being everything else is rather irrelevant.

I think you and I would have a rather interesting in person conversation on this and I could write more but now I am about to take off for Indy so I have to go.

a reply to: IAMTAT


from FreeMason Emmanuel Rebold

Alvanus 1st Grand Master of the Masonic Corporation of Great Britain. 290 CE

557 - Saint Augustine of Hippo aka Saint Austin appointed Grand Inspector of the Masonic Fraternities

614 - Pope Boniface IV appoints Masonic Corporations alone the right to build sacred buildings

Richard the Lionhearted
already
Grand Master of the Knights of the Temple becomes Grand Master of the Masonic Fraternity of Great Britain . 1155

maybe it helps maybe not...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks. I've always been very interested in Freemasonry...as well as the Templars.
Apparently, my family has some direct lineage to the Sinclair Templar Knights.
Have a good trip

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: IAMTAT


from FreeMason Emmanuel Rebold

Alvanus 1st Grand Master of the Masonic Corporation of Great Britain. 290 CE

Wow...Predates The Council of Nicea. Thanks.

Edit:
This also lends some weight to the idea that early Masons may have been influenced by Gnostic Christian teachings.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Thanks. I've always been very interested in Freemasonry...as well as the Templars.
Apparently, my family has some direct lineage to the Sinclair Templar Knights.
Have a good trip

Cool history, you should go to the chapel if you ever get a chance.

My only caveat is be aware of people making historical claims without supporting evidence. Masonic history gets a bit murky beyond the 1,500-1,600's. Terrydon did a nice thread last year where he tried to track down the furthest point back that he could locate.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Masonry most likely predates the Templars in some fashion by a few hundred years and despite sharing the name for several of our degrees there really is not philosophical parallels other than the main ones we use elsewhere, fidelity, brotherly love, charity, relief, truth.

In what sense does masonry "most likely" predate the Templars in "some fashion"?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

your gut say something to you when you read a certain bit? take note when this happens, do you know what bit made your gut turn?

a reply to: Ph03n1x

i was brought up in a bigoted protestant family, the opposite side of that ridiculous divide, it wasn't till i left my teens that i could see the ridiculousness of the whole division. You speak about facts and Christianity like they are synonymous with each other, when in actual FACT they go together like salt and Sh*T

How's the wild goose chase going? Catch your own tail yet?

You're researching the wrong deceptions, using the wrong tools and trusting the wrong sources if you want to wake up (see my signature and description under my name as well regarding your current mental foodsource).
Is Trust Possible? Awake!—2010

Is Trust Possible?

He was considered a pioneer in the treatment of pain. Yet, for more than ten years, beginning in 1996, this distinguished anesthetist had fabricated the results of studies published in prestigious medical reviews.

“I CANNOT begin to comprehend why a person would take this course,” says Dr. Steven L. Shafer, quoted in Anesthesiology News.

What would motivate a respected professional to deceive his fellow man? Consider four possible causes.

● Greed. In a New York Times report, Dr. Jerome Kassirer, a former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine, explains: “When researchers are beholden to [pharmaceutical] companies for much of their income, there is an incredible tendency to get results that are favorable to the company.”

● Success at all costs. Science students in Germany are believed to have paid out thousands of euros in bribes to teachers to “earn” the title of Doktor, a symbol of success in that country. A study described in The New York Times found that many students who cut ethical corners said that they “intended to follow a strict code of values” after they attained success.

● The absence of role models. Regarding high school students, one professor is quoted in The New York Times as saying: “We might be tempted to say they’ve lost their moral compass . . . It’s probably better to say that their teachers and mentors and the rest of society never helped them construct and internalize a moral compass in the first place.”

● Practices that are inconsistent with values. In a study of nearly 30,000 students, 98 percent said they believed that honesty is essential in personal relationships. However, 8 of every 10 students admitted that they had lied to their parents, and 64 percent admitted to cheating on an exam during the previous year.

Superior Moral Principles

As noted in the box on this page, humans seem designed to trust. Nevertheless, the Bible realistically states that “the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up.” (Genesis 8:21) How can you battle that inclination and resist the tide of dishonesty that is so prevalent today? The following Bible principles can help:

● “Do not fabricate against your fellowman anything bad, when he is dwelling in a sense of security with you.”—Proverbs 3:29.

Love for our neighbor moves us to seek his welfare, not to abuse his trust. This principle could put an end to numerous forms of human exploitation motivated by greed, such as the trafficking of counterfeit medicine, discussed at the outset of this series.

● “Truth will last forever; lies are soon found out.”—Proverbs 12:19, “Contemporary English Version.”

Many today believe that honest people are at a disadvantage. But ask yourself, ‘What is more valuable—gaining immediate rewards or long-lasting benefits, including self-respect?’ A student may deceive others concerning his knowledge or skills by cheating on exams, but how will he fare in the workplace?

● “The righteous is walking in his integrity. Happy are his sons after him.”—Proverbs 20:7.

If you are a parent, set a good example for your children by ‘walking in integrity.’ Explain to them how you have benefited by following an upright course. When children see a parent walking the path of integrity, they are more likely to adopt a trustworthy course themselves.—Proverbs 22:6.

Do the above Bible principles really work? Can trustworthy people be found today?

[Blurb on page 4]

According to the newspaper Le Figaro, more and more French people “think that the leading figures in society—in political, economic, social, and cultural circles—are not virtuous, and they do not see why they should be so themselves.”

[Box on page 5]

DESIGNED TO TRUST?

Experiments conducted by Michael Kosfeld, a professor of business administration at Frankfurt University in Germany, led him to the conclusion that trust is “a biologically-based part of human nature.” Kosfeld discovered that when there is interaction between two people, the human brain releases oxytocin, a hormone that stimulates trust. “It is, in fact, one of the distinguishing features of the human species,” Kosfeld states. “When trust is absent, we are, in a sense, dehumanized.”

Next page of the article:
People You Can Trust: Awake!—2010

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

REAL Christianity only worships JESUS who is God the Father.

No, Jesus is the divine Son of his God and Father just as the bible says over and over. And you like to think you're awake...being in denial regarding the historical facts surrounding this deception and conflation game (conflating Jesus with his God and his Father) and how they have bearing on the reality of the matter isn't the same as being awake.
All quotations below are from the KJV:
Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching Of Man, Council of Nicaea

"and the Word was a god"

More commentary on the subject above.

originally posted by: Anaana
In what sense does masonry "most likely" predate the Templars in "some fashion"?

The operative trade guilds are obviously all older than the Templars. See the Regius Poem for further reading.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You can trace some of the Masonic themes back 5000 years BC, potential mathematical support as well.

aliisaacstoryteller.com...

a reply to: Cauliflower

Not clicking on a random link. What themes are you referring to?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Probably best to start with very general considerations concerning rule based infrastructure for the purposes of insuring survival of the order.

Tinypic reinstated my rights to post pictures however there may be intellectual property issues so I post the authors link out of courtesy.

Do you think the the Regius Poem might have been a Renaissance work from prior ages?

a reply to: Cauliflower


It is possible. The history on such things is murky at best but it obviously shows some form of Masonry existed at the time.

originally posted by: Davg80
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

your gut say something to you when you read a certain bit? take note when this happens, do you know what bit made your gut turn?

It did, and noticeably so. It was years ago so I forget which part. I can handle reading weird stuff, so it's not the subject matter itself.

I got a similar but even stronger reaction from watching Kubrick's film "Eyes wide shut."

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
The operative trade guilds are obviously all older than the Templars. See the Regius Poem for further reading.

I apologise, I thought you were talking about speculative Freemasonry, the operative Masonic craft is obviously millennia older than the Templars but that has little to do with the invention of "modern" Speculative Freemasonry. Once the transition to secularisation of the material sciences had been completed, it's all, right-doxy, wrong-praxy, and well, immaterial.

originally posted by: Anaana
I apologise, I thought you were talking about speculative Freemasonry...

No worries, although the Operative trade guilds do share some similarities to modern Masonic Speculative symbolism.