Real Christ Relics expose who try to mythify him.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Maybe the agnostic doesn't need proof or disproof for their continuing existence in this reality. Maybe the agnostic is simply content that they are drawing breath in the now, the moment. They don't deny there is the possibility of a god but simply believe that knowledge is not available to the living.

They are free.

Simple really.

a reply to: ClovenSky

I would not say there is a single type of agnostic but yours is certainly one very philosophical observation on it as a state of open mindedness.

You know the guy we are discussing hated priests and organised religion's he just wanted people to live good lives, help one another and not do wrong which causes suffering the future and to live as a single family.
In fact many of his teaching's especially in the early pre State religion church were almost identical to Jewish Kibbutz and also very what today we could call socialist, it was not an organized priest hood it was a community owning all thing's in common and united in a single belief system.
Of course the SO called Evangelical Right wing are literally worshiping a version of this guy I simply do not recognize.
But hey I am wandering off into political and religious ideology's there.

a reply to: infolurker

I find your posts most impressive. Well done indeed.

It is difficult to separate the word of God from the word of man and the former is about love and the latter about controlling all mankind.

You are better off believing in your own heart and foregoing the churches.

Give up all and follow me does not mean become the richest, largest and most powerful multinational company in the entire world.

P

HE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS OUR FAITHFUL LORD AND SAVIOUR

You do know that people who write in all capitals a lot are usually uneducated buffoons right?

a reply to: LABTECH767

I find this subject fascinating. I just don't want to interrupt the OP more than I already have. Maybe another thread one of these days.

originally posted by: CB328

HE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS OUR FAITHFUL LORD AND SAVIOUR

You do know that people who write in all capitals a lot are usually uneducated buffoons right?

OR they are making a comment toHighlight a strong belief.

You know people whom criticize based on another person's grammatical expression are often unable to find a stronger method to mock with something they disagree with, not saying that is your intent but just making a discreet observation.

a reply to: pheonix358

I cannot claim as mine. Mostly from research web pages... to the other guy, same with the caps. I cannot type that fast.

a reply to: pheonix358

As with this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The church has a single man (the Pope) acting and speaking for the whole body, fulfilling Daniel 7:8.

“And there, in this horn (kingdom), were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.”

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

originally posted by: LABTECH767
Snarl and Abe foreman this is not only for you but it may as well be.

Mine was a light-hearted comment.

FWIW, I Know God exists & at the same time, I'm pretty sure Abe Froman was correct on all counts.

a reply to: Snarl
It has sparked a good and lively debate at least, I may not agree with all of Abe foreman's point but I do understand how you see him as correct.
Maybe it is because I am coming at it from a different angle, for me the Church is not the Institution as all of those ARE corrupt but the meaning behind it and the majority of the innocent believers within it and of course the same argument could also then be applied to all large religion's, even one which I can't stand hypocrite that I am.
Anyway thanks for setting your point straight and phrased like that I can not really argue with it at all.

a reply to: infolurker

Excellent. But even a majority which have left her are no different living with the whores which are her daughters.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: The angel of light
Brother, I beg you to research and come out of her.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

SNIP

I am not sure of your point here, this has all been fought before, it was called the Reformation.


As far as Relics, I am sure some are probably real but they have no bearing on what the Lord did whilst He walked among us in the flesh.

This has no bearing on my belief system......the records do.....the New Testament is the most recorded ancient document we have.

originally posted by: KEACHI
a reply to: infolurker

Excellent. But even a majority which have left her are no different living with the whites which are her daughters.

So true in many cases. Prosperity Gospel and related doctrines are just as poisonous.

a reply to: The angel of light

Completely sincere and honest. It is worth the few minutes to watch.

a reply to: infolurker

Sorry but is evident you are confused the topic on which I opened this thread are not theological discussions on Marian devotions, it is the evidences that ground on history the lives of Joshua Bar Josef and the members of his family.

I think it is quiet important to help you to realize the misunderstanding you have on what we are discussing here. This is not the forum to try to do religious proselitism, is the History one.

Now, it is clear that you handle only an interpretation of the Christian scriptures, not a universally acepted one, many churches would not accept the way you quote those writings, and that does not refer exclusively to Roman Catholicism, they contradict openly the way Mary is seen by Coptics, Orthodox and Anglicans.

Thanks

Angel of Lightness

a reply to: infolurker

The same I can say of that absurd anti Catholic proselitsm video you are bringing here, it is clearly eons far from the topic of discussion of the thread, mere sectarian propaganda of really cheap manufacture.

We are here interested on the different objects that have survived the passing of centuries belonging to the historic figure of Jesus of Nazareth or his close relatives.

You can keep for you those very controversial subjective opinions on a particular Church for you or your friends or open a thread on that subject in the Theology and religion forum of ATS if you decide they are worth of it.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: edsinger

I think that seems to be a honest question, I think the topic was well defined, but if there are doubts, here it is again :


This thread are not theological discussions on Marian devotions, neither in fundamentalist attacks between different denominations, it is to explore the evidences that ground on history the lives of Joshua Bar Josef and the members of his family.

Now, I don't think honestly the reform showed nothing about this subject, these Relics were already venerated more than thousand years before Luther.

As far as I know the Doctoral degree of Martin Luther was in Theology, he was not even minimally qualified as credited Historian of Christ, the extent of his knowledge was limited to the scriptures.

Some of these largely historically venerated relics are still owned by the Orthodox or Eastern churches or were in their possession until the time of the crusades when they were transfered by force to the west.

These relics together with the so many reliable secular sources that refer to Joshua Bar Josef are key evidence to refute the I sensate claims of fundamentalist atheists trying to deny the historicity of Him.

Their no sense and not seriously accepted claim among the standard History is that Christ is a kind of fiction character created by the writers of the Gospels. It is absolutely misinformation since there are many accounts of the life of Jesus, many more than the 4 canonical ones, like minor Gospels, as well as secular accounts.

Those sources do not necesarily are matching in all what they say about him, what also shows there was no agreement into create a Literature fictious character, it could not be the case.

Thanks

The Angel of Lightness

Thank you for posting this - I'm very curious to read more about some of these relics! Thank you!!

Jesus Christ was, and is, the REAL DEAL. Whether these relics are all authentic or not is interesting to explore, but their authenticity should not be confused with the authenticity of Jesus. His life, His death, His resurrection ... these historically real events. That reality doesn't hinge on relics. But if these relics might soften hearts and open minds, then praise the Lord! Let's examine them with critical minds and open hearts.

Looking forward to reading up on these relics!

His life, His death, His resurrection ... these historically real events

No they aren't , not even close. Though Jesus probably did live, most of what's written about him is likely bogus.

a reply to: The angel of light

Forgive me Angel of light, I would ask that you permit one comment from me on the devotion to our lady.

Now for those whom are trying to steer this thread in that direction which is NOT the purpose of the thread I want to correct you on some very distinct points.

The Orthodox (which includes LATIN orthodox aka Catholic, Syriac Orthodox - the oldest continuous church, the Ethiopian orthodox, Coptic, Armenian, and Greek Orthodoxy - including it's offspring the Russian Orthodox) all have devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and indeed it is one of the OLDEST continuous tradition's in the Christian World.

Now you know Jesus loved his apostles and when he was on the Cross he made his mother the mother of an apostle, all the apostles were united through the Sacrament of his body so she therefore was the mother of them all and all that are united to Christ in his body.

Do you understand that, you are trying to take this thread off it's subject to attack Catholicism when in fact it is not only catholic but indeed All original Christianity.

She suffered with every pain of her son, she had to watch her son die on that cross and she knew it was coming, remember his discussion with her at the wedding were he turned water into wine at her request.

The Mother does not save you, you believe but she can and does intercede for you (Prays for you) and Jesus listens to her because unlike us (Except by the remission of sin's through the Blood of the Lamb of God) she alone is Sinless.
biblehub.com...

Now you can say all you like about how she is not your saviour and conveniently ignore the fact GOD chose her alone to be his vessel to come into this world but it was not only the Catholic's and indeed all orthodox and Original Christian sect's have deep devotion to the Mother of Christ.

Now I am NOT going to answer any more on this thread on this subject but wish that you also not comment, if you feel so strongly please start a new thread on this subject.

I for one wish to hear more about these other relics.

There was indeed a problem in the medieval period, a time when the great cathedrals were built and used by the lord's and king's to rake in vast fortune's from the Devoted pilgrims' of the day whom were in fact the Tourist's of there day and there were simply not enough saint's finger bone's and miraculous artefacts to go around and this did indeed cause a period of forgery's but by no mean's are all the artefacts actually forgery's and in it's defence the Catholic Church did all it could to test and validate any claimed artefacts, much as they do when a person dies whom has been extremely devoted and were miraculous occurrences have taken place.

Now just to skip back on moment, saint's are another problem for many of you, well Jesus once told that in the Resurrection (he is the resurrection and the way and the life) that there is no difference between a man and a woman, they shall have new forms' (body's) like the Angels - "Like the Angels", angels do god's will don't they, they work miracles in God's name and serve him?, so Saint's become Angel's get it in Christ's Kingdom.

This is personal for me because My mother had the afterbirth left in by a incompetent mid wife and suffered septicaemia after one of my elder sisters was born, she died (heart stopped) and had what you would call an NDE and she saw a beautiful radiant woman on mountain's beckoning her whom she recognized as the Virgin Mary (She is Anglican by the way but had us baptized Catholic), she wanted to go to her but then thought about her children being left with no one, her husband was abusive and not fit to be around them so she turned and ran back down this mountain she found herself upon and away from her vision of the holy mother, her true mother and came back to life, she has suffered both before and after this in her life but for many of you it is all simply academic and if it does not mesh with your version then it fail's your test.

Keep your mind's open this is not a threat to attack any religion or denomination but one that is about relic's.

Sorry about going off the subject Angel and I shall definitely not reply to any answers to this from them, I just wanted to give them something to think on.