I Present to You... God

By using information from our past, we can extrapolate crucial information about the future. In a sense, that's the whole purpose of Science, that's how it evolves. And although alot of scientists are motivated to find evidences that God doesn't exists, I've stumbled upon a theory that gives evidence of the opposite... and to be honest, I myself must admit that I have been shaken, no - blown away by the elegance and simplicity of it.


The Omega Point Theory

Unlike popular belief people had in some other thread, the concept of an Omega Point was actually created by Teilhard de Chardin, in the 1800s. So the concept isn't new. He theorised that because of Evolution, some life forms are bound to ultimately evolve and become extremely advanced, ultimately achieving a god-like existence (what we'd call a Type V on the Kardashev Scale) in the extremely far future. This existence becomes so advanced, it can literally form a force to counter the chaotic nature of matter, all across Space and acting perhaps even across Time; and saving the Universe from death by making it orderly once again.

Teilhard's proposal was so controversial for his time, his work was declared heresy by most major religious organisations, including the Vatican. However his idea applies very modern principles such as Convergent Evolution. His idea rings true to me, especially since his thoughts are very similar to some of my own:

"Given enough energy and enough time, a life form will evolve to control all of its environment. "

(so-called "First Law of Divinity")

If the environment is the Universe, and its energy content near infinite, and the Time available is unlimited (in the light of recent findings), then some life form inside of it is bound to eventually evolve to control the entire universe, even if it takes billions or even trillions of years.

Frank J. Tipler simply modernised Teilhard's work, making it into an Omega Point Theory, adding a concept called "singularity".

The Omega Point is a term used by Tipler to designate the final cosmological singularity, which he contends is a physically-necessary cosmological state in the far future of the universe. According to his Omega Point Theory, as the universe comes to an end at this singularity in a particular form of the Big Crunch, the computational capacity of the universe (in terms of both its processor speed and memory storage) increases unlimitedly with a hyperbolic growth rate as the radius of the universe goes to zero, allowing an infinite number of bits to be processed and stored before the end of spacetime. Via this supertask, a simulation run on this universal computer can thereby continue forever in its own terms (i.e., in "experiential time"), even though the universe lasts only a finite amount of proper time.

www.conservapedia.com...

In other words, Tipler adds that at the singularity, the entire universe would work like a gigantic processing chip, and whichever super-advanced life form controlling it will be able to delay their death forever by running a new, virtual universe with its own virtual time. This bears resemblance to God and his Heaven. The concept is somewhat similar to General Relativity's time dilation, in which Time may stretch itself and seem like seconds for an outside observer but stretch to eons for an inside observer.

Tipler notes that even if life never evolves into a god-like superpower in our universe, it may nevertheless do so in some of all the alternate realities as proposed by Multiverse Theory (a solution, in Physics, to Schrödinger's Cat). From this one point, the being(s), which will then be capable of manipulating entire universes, will influence the Multiverses Continuum with its (theirs) actions. Tipler's argument is, strangely enough, supported by my own multiverse theory, which proposes that all multiverses share one dimension with each others - Time. If both Tipler and I are right, then our universe is bound to get attracted by an Omega Point, and our universe's future is bound to merge with it.

My only criticism of Tipler's version is that the Universe is on a trajectory of Thermal Death, not of a Big Crunch. However my own criticism gives evidences to support the original Omega Point idea, since Thermal Death means that the Universe has even more time available, and thus the chances that some life evolve into an Omega Point are raised by several orders of magnitude. Also, Tipler himself points out that it's possible the super-advanced life form, once it achieves its overwhelming power, will tigger an artificial Big Crunch itself. In fact, he points out that artificially collapsing one dimension would allow for instantaneous information exchange, which would allow the Omega Point to perform faster computations.


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Conclusion

Pretty much everyone here knows that I am not christian. However my intuition tells me that the Omega Point concept is the nearest brush to Truth we humans have. I am the author of pretty deep science stuff, but the more I've progressed in science, the more I was rushing to nowhere. The Omega Point idea is the first ever to match many of my own conclusions. I can actually see it - the bigger picture, starting to form before my mind. It's so simple - survival no matter the cost, survival from the Universe's Death itself is the ultimate threat we (as biospheres) will ever face. From this ultimate point in the future, everything in the present is evolving and converging. Life has so much time to do so, all over the Universe - and we already know that Life, although slow to start, grows to evolve rather... exponentially.

Is our future an Universe forever kept alive by a form of life so advanced, it is indistinguishable from God and his Heaven? Or are all attempts to reach such a high level of evolution doomed to fail? And if the former is more likely, then are these super-advanced life forms acting upon our present Universe and its content so to encourage the formation of the Omega Point in our future - in other words, ensuring the survival of the Universe?

a reply to: swanne

Only 24 letters! Alpha to Omega!

i have a couple immediate thoughts to share in response to your speculation:

1) the idea of a vast number of type III civilizations or entities coming together with the purpose of eradicating a type V entity or civilization makes me smile. massive fish should be complemented by a synergetic collection of smaller fishes. call it a sort of cosmic check and balance. poetic symmetry and whatnot.

2) a type V entity or civilization that cannot be surmounted by any means is a radical threat to any inferior entity or civilization

now my less immediate thoughts while i was composing the above... to quote batman - "He has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty." much like lex luthor, I believe in silver bullets. they help me sleep at night when the stranger things wake up. relying on the kindness of monsters who can control entire universes or collections of universes...that is a luxury you should be prepared to lose.

to summarize, in the process of presenting to us a supremely hypothetical non-entity, there are a lot of questions here you are not answering or even asking. the existence of a type V being is only the very tip of the iceberg.

a reply to: TzarChasm

In other words, you are proposing the possibility that the Omega Point might be evil.

It's a good argument, I can relate to your point. Those with the greatest power are not necessarily those with the highest morality.

I think that many Type IV civilisations will not only exist in the future, but also be warring with one another in their quest of achieving a Type V level (ability to control entire universes and Time itself). So some of them might be evil, and some of them might actually seek peace and evolve to be both powerful and benevolent.

a reply to: swanne

In other words, you are proposing the possibility that the Omega Point might be evil.

evil, no. evil implies malicious intent, the desire to harm for the pleasure of causing distress or discomfort. the omega point strikes me as suspiciously self-satisfied. it simply cannot compute an existence that is not essentially an extension of itself. it thus follows that any part of existence which doesnt fit this model is inherently flawed or inferior and in need of "trouble shooting" which would invariably come down to two options: assimilation or extinction. this is not a matter of good or evil, but simple logic.

I think that many Type IV civilisations will not only exist in the future, but also be warring with one another in their quest of achieving a Type V level (ability to control entire universes and Time itself). So some of them might be evil, and some of them might actually seek peace and evolve to be both powerful and benevolent.

you mean the way we humans have evolved to seek a benevolent and peaceful relationship with such creatures as ants and spiders? how about bacteria?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
it simply cannot compute an existence that is not essentially an extension of itself. it thus follows that any part of existence which doesnt fit this model is inherently flawed or inferior and in need of "trouble shooting" which would invariably come down to two options: assimilation or extinction.

Perhaps, perhaps. However you are assuming the Omega Point has an important attribute - individuality. Which is an attribute I doubt it does have.

Unlike species on Earth, the Omega Point is an entity whose existence is the entire universe. All of the content of the universe would act as bits, or logic gates, which would make the universe run and ultimately yield the processing power to generate a virtual universe so to avoid universal death.

In other words, the true Omega Point wouldn't view the content of the universe as seperate, but actually part of itself.

Which would give entirely different outcome (about the Omega's treatment of life forms) than your theory (which BTW I totally respect).

a reply to: swanne

Perhaps change the title to: "I postulate to you God"

the terms we use such as "END" or "DEATH" these are concepts born out of fear. Things which we do not understand cause uncertainty and we replace ignorance with fear. I Do not believe in a beginning or an end all things are in a constant ever changing state of flux. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only released or contained within.

Perhaps consciousness is relative to the organism and all things have some level of it. We as humans enjoy larger amounts of curiosity as well as understanding. But an atom may suspect that it is a part of a molecule that makes up a certain compound that makes up a part of my body. It is unable to grasp the fact that I am not a god, but only a larger more sophisticated organism trying to understand its existence.

We are all small parts of the universe understanding what it is to be human for a little while.

a reply to: swanne

But we don't know if any lifeform has reached the omega point yet in this space/time slice we live in.

Now if you throw out time frames, then perhaps there are an infinite number of such life forms...but its unlikely that any one of them "won", which might infer that there is likely a stalemate...

In such a case the resulting nullification might look like there were functionally no such entities.

(Thus explaining the "great quiet" when it comes to "god").

Which is just the appearance of things we see.

In my own theory over in aliens and ufos, (the post singularity plasma hypothesis), I'm suggesting such an omega point civilization (well post singularity...thats weaker than omega) may very well be behind the "Phenomenon".

Just a hypothesis of course.

Kev

a reply to: swanne

Basic platonic panpsychism. A very old philosophy.

a reply to: swanne

I think it is more likely that we achieve god hood through technology then a god already exists and is manipulating reality with his will.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: swanne

I think it is more likely that we achieve god hood through technology then a god already exists and is manipulating reality with his will.

You mean, will exist. According to the theory, the Omega Point emerges in the future, at the death of the Universe.

I tend to agree with you, high tech will undoubtedly become indistinguishable from god-ness (Clark's famous quote that high tech is indistinguishable from magic).

However the Omega Point and human high tech are not mutually exclusive. Tipler himself proposes that the Omega Point will probably be constructed by a highly advanced human civilisation in the far future.

originally posted by: swanne
"Given enough energy and enough time, a life form will evolve to control all of its environment. "

(so-called "First Law of Divinity")

....or destroy the universe and itself in the process.

a reply to: swanne

I'm pretty sure that by the time we are intelligent enough to construct the Omega Point that we won't be humans anymore. We will have either evolved into a different species over millions of years or we will have genetically manipulated ourselves via some form of transhumanism. The human body is just too inefficient and we have to keep making concessions in our technologies to make up for these inefficiencies.

Kind of an aside but this topic got me thinking. Whenever I watch mecha animes I'm always astounded that the Japanese thing that giant humanoid robots would be efficient forms of military warfare when tanks and jet planes are already VASTLY superior than them and have existed for decades already.

a reply to: swanne

Perhaps, perhaps. However you are assuming the Omega Point has an important attribute - individuality. Which is an attribute I doubt it does have. Unlike species on Earth, the Omega Point is an entity whose existence is the entire universe. All of the content of the universe would act as bits, or logic gates, which would make the universe run and ultimately yield the processing power to generate a virtual universe so to avoid universal death.

which ultimately necessitates a sort of predetermination. that is, every component has its express purpose which must be to some degree charted with or without its explicit consent. which brings us back to sovereign authority. the incontrovertible power to pull every thread in existence without restriction or supervision. including the threads that are us. i disagree with such authority being in the hands of any ONE entity regardless of how encompassing or innate it may be.

In other words, the true Omega Point wouldn't view the content of the universe as seperate, but actually part of itself. Which would give entirely different outcome (about the Omega's treatment of life forms) than your theory (which BTW I totally respect).

imagine if a single cell in your body decided it wished to become a different sort of cell, or maybe participate in a different organism or improve itself to the point it becomes its own organism altogether. have you ever considered this possibility? and how far would you go to grant its freedom? imagine if your heart decided it wanted to be a brain, or your colon wanted to become a trachea. it develops its own personality and dreams and wants to seek its own way independent of you and your biology. would you die to give your individual components their freedom? would this omega point be willing to set entire universes free from its control and supervision if they asked nicely?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I hate to quote Tipler all the time lol, but once again Tipler is reaching a similar conclusion to yours. He predicts that mankind will never actually physically travel to other stars, instead they'll upload the information of their mind in little carriers which will be accelerated at near the speed of light, and this is what they'll send across the stars.

If you think about it, it'd make sense - you wouldn't have to worry about G Force of acceleration anymore, nor food or osteoporosis.

a reply to: swanne

That's EXACTLY what I theorized in my own time lol. In fact with the invention of cyber space and the move to virtual reality, we could put humans in a virtual world while sending out technology to explore the cosmos.

a reply to: swanne

As humanity has evolved, we still see ourselves at the pinnacle of Evolution now, and we often project way-out into the distant future, still seeing ourselves at the forefront of Evolution.
But what about other possibilities?

We have created new life forms and/or entities: Nations; Institutions; computers; robotics; and corporations.

Seems easier for me to see a corporation evolving to those higher levels, rather than a civilization and it's limitations.
Look at today's voracious corps: never resting, and ever-consuming as much as they can.
Imagine how they would behave if they could function beyond a legal system?
They have no conscience. Not evil on purpose, but not caring at all neither.
There is nothing a corporation won't do to increase revenues. The only thing holding them back, are the laws that they can't skirt-around. But they are more than willing to try, and will invest millions in lobbying, and/or buy-outs.
Imagine one of them that is too powerful for a civilization of humanity to control...

a reply to: Nothin

You are misunderstanding evolution. ALL life is at the pinnacle of evolution. There is no such things a "more evolved" or "less evolved". Every living organism is equally evolved for the niches they fill. Saying something is more evolved than something else is just a very BAD apples to oranges comparison.

So there is nothing wrong with always seeing ourselves as the pinnacle of evolution. We were that yesterday and we'll be that tomorrow. But then again so are dogs, but the point of this is that we need to abandon this idea of evolution working in stages, because that isn't how it works at all.

a reply to: swanne

"Given enough energy and enough time, a life form will evolve to control all of its environment."

Sounds like the Boltzmann brain concept.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: swanne

A god constrained by the laws of the universe, is not a god (being omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient).