Fukushima Reactor #2 May Have Been Found Underground.

Tokyo Electric Power (Tepco), the operator of Japan's wrecked Fukushima nuclear plant, said on Monday it may have found nuclear fuel debris below the damaged No. 2 reactor, one of three that had meltdowns in the 2011 disaster.

New findings at Fukushima

It honestly sounds like this could be the first known and documented case of "China Syndrome" where the core components of the reactor burned, or in this case melted, through the containment vessel and into the crust. With this new discovery of the reactor core and it melting through the floor of Building #2. What possible way do they have to extract other than with robots or do they even have a way they are going to deal with the reactor core other than encasing it in some structure and burying the core where it is? If the radiation is frying robots they are using when they aren't even close enough to use them. I fear what that can do to a human that's more than likely only going to be exposed to it for seconds before dying of radiation poisoning. We don't know how far down under its building that the reactor core of #2 melted. Did it go down only a couple of feet or did it go down hundreds of feet?

To top that all off, TEPCO comes out and says that they have possible found the core of reactor #2 and yet they haven't figured out a way to extract the spent nuclear that was basically blasted into the ceiling and outer shell of what's left of the building that covered reactor #3.


Now it has also came out several months ago that this "ice wall" of frozen soil that TEPCO came up with has seemingly failed to keep groundwater from being contaminated. They have admitted there is no way keep rain water from the basements of the reactor buildings where the highly radioactive water from contaminating the groundwater that it is leaking into.
So-Called Fukushima "Ice Wall" Has Failed.

Fukushima could very well be the nuclear disaster that may not be cleaned up all the way. There is no way I can think of where they can remove the reactor core if this is the reactor core they have found. Yeah, sure, encase it in something and keep coming back to it every so many years to check on it. Who knows how long that will be before that happens since the fuel rods are still giving off enough radiation to kill robots from the inside out. Even if it does get cleaned up completely and it does eventually become safe enough for people to return to that area. It's going take billions, maybe even trillions, dollars and decades before the clean up even thinks about ending.

Read it, it doesn't say it melted through the bottom 'and into the crust'. Says it's on the bottom of the reactor vessel. That's how they got a photo of it.

a reply to: Bedlam

Got to reading it more thoroughly. I must have missed where it said that it only melted down to the bottom of the reactor vessel.

a reply to: gimmefootball400

1) There's a picture of it. Tough to do if it's "inside the crust"

2) the photo's legend:
"by a camera inserted under Japan's wrecked Fukushima nuclear plant, shows material found below the damaged No. 2 reactor"

3) "Tepco detected a black lump of material directly below the reactor in an inspection by camera on Monday"

There are any number of legitimate sites that will show you the basic plans of the design, there are structures to catch/slow the corium if you get a minor melt down. The reactor itself does not sit on the base of the containment vessel. There's a big air gap. So it's quite possible for something to be "below the reactor" and not "in the crust". "In the crust" sort of prevents photos.

With the cleanup cost estimated at $188 billion and while I am sure they are not on the hook for the entire amount, who will be keeping TEPCO afloat to try to fix this? Because it is not going away. 30 years on for Chernobyl, and they still haven't got it completely under control.
At some point, if they haven't already, TEPCO will have to dedicate their entire resources to this and god forbid that another 9.0 hits.
They will be dealing with this for 100s of years.

a reply to: gimmefootball400

I think Japan can come up with a Go Go Gadget Arm to reach down in there?

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

I think Japan can come up with a Go Go Gadget Arm to reach down in there?

This #'s so hot no semiconductors will survive for long. You'd have to design robots without polymers (at least common ones) and without semiconductors. It's cotton insulation wiring and integrated ballistic electron circuits all the way, I'm afraid.

a reply to: RazorV66

That is a good question as to who would be charged with keeping TEPCO afloat while they try to deal with this. If it is anyway like it is here in the states. The burden of keeping TEPCO afloat will fall back on the taxpayers unfortunately. Chernobyl happened thirty one years ago this coming April 26th and its only been six years since this happened at Fukushima. The incident is far from being under control and it likely won't be under total control in our, our children's, or our grand childrens' lifetime. If TEPCO has dedicated all of the resources they have on hand to deal with this over the coming decades. They need to make it CLEAR that other nuclear facilities under their control can and will be able to withstand powerful earthquakes and tsunamis. If this had been a 7.0 or under that hit Japan at the time. We wouldn't be discussing this and the effects it has had and will continue to have on not only Japanese society and culture but the effects that we have yet to see across the Pacific Basin and the entire world.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

With the robots we have now that depend on semiconductors and polymers to function. It will be nearly impossible for them to use robots with the current electrical and battery systems that are currently in use at the site. With such an expenditure like what TEPCO has to deal with right now and for the distant future. The robots we have now and for years to come have basically been rendered obsolete due to the amount of radiation that is still being given off by that reactor core.

Go Go Gadget Arm is totally different than any robot you guys have in mind, apparently.

Trust me, they have no problem letting their workers die. Several died of radiation during the crisis period, but they quickly stopped reporting anything that makes them look bad so who knows how many have really perished.

originally posted by: MoreInterior
Trust me, they have no problem letting their workers die. Several died of radiation during the crisis period, but they quickly stopped reporting anything that makes them look bad so who knows how many have really perished.

It's a particularly Japanese thing that they will take one for the team. While one might think TEPCO would curb that, they seem to have been all too happy to let Japanese cultural memes play out there.

originally posted by: MoreInterior
Trust me, they have no problem letting their workers die. Several died of radiation during the crisis period, but they quickly stopped reporting anything that makes them look bad so who knows how many have really perished.

Things have improved in that area.

Thyroid cancer compensation for Fukushima plant worker

a reply to: RazorV66

“We have to preserve that earning power,” said Mr Hirose in an interview. “Victory for us means having the money to meet our responsibilities in Fukushima. If we can’t, that’s failure.”

...

Decommissioning is expected to take 40 years but Mr Hirose conceded there was no certainty and a full clean-up could take longer than that.

“Cost is one factor, but also the radiation dose for workers, accident risk and the pace of robotics development,” said Mr Hirose.

Given the degree of radioactivity, robotics or remote control may be the only way to work on the reactors, but the necessary technology does not yet exist.

Chief optimistic Tepco earnings can cover Fukushima plant clean-up

The emboldened part above is unbelievable to me. It's hard to even come up with a fitting analogy to describe how bizarre it is.

Let's say that there was a complete financial collapse, and money no longer existed. Then someone says...

"I hope to become a millionaire in the coming years. Money doesn't exist anymore, so that will need to be reinvented. Following that, I hope to come up with a plan to become wealthy although I have none now. I expect all of that to happen within 10 years."

This is black comedy of the worst kind.

a reply to: gimmefootball400

Good Thread here Chooch!
Informative and thought provoking.

Watch PBS Nova Documentary "The Nuclear Option" from Jan 11, 2017, they examine the new generation of nuclear reactors that they are NOW building in China, very interesting.
The newer generation is geared to avoid the core meltdown issue and there are several new designs.

a reply to: MoreInterior

They get alcoholics in debt to the mafia run bars then 'offer' them employment cleaning up the rads.

Perhaps Tepco should gather up all the radioactive junk, put it in 40 gallon drums, and dump them in the Mariana trench, in time it will all get subducted and end up under the mantle, it will 250,000 years before it surfaces via a volcano, job done.

Why haven't they capped them yet?

Further more, why are we all called crazy for even acknowledging and reporting on it like it never happened?

When this event first happened it was pointed out, in the Fukushima forum, that there is technology that can detect exactly where the cores are. If i remember correctly, they can even do it from space. They know exactly where they are, they knew from day one. They are long gone...

Further. Assuming it is visible, and god help us if it is, there is nothing they can do about it. They can't take a crane and load it on a truck. Saying this gives people the impression that seeing it, or even being able to poke it with a stick means all is well. Quite the opposite, as dragging that thing out into the atmosphere is... well we won't have to find out because this thing is moving down to the earth's core.

Keep in mind, Chernobyl's meltdown was nothing like this, they vacated the area, most of the military involved in the damage control got cancer or died quickly, and there is still a huge problem. Such a big problem they spent a gigantic amount of money building a shield to help limit the life times of damage. Fukushima, ah, diapers, plastic bags, eroding tanks and lies, while radiation floods the ocean and beyond. Slow death we are seeing and folks are much more angry about a Trump Tweet.

Lastly, it was decoded when this first happened that the reason there was no international effort to deal with this was because Japan was making nuke material in reactor 4. Life on earth is going to be hell all so that Japan could make nukes in secret.

Didn't the Russians fear that if they were to allow the "China Syndrome" to occur under Chernobyl that it would wipe out most of Europe?

This is concerning indeed. The truth is, we just don't know what will happen because it's never happened....

a reply to: Groot

Why haven't the reactors and their cores been capped yet. I honestly believe it is because TEPCO doesn't, nor did they, have a response plan when it came to the plant being breached. They probably ran drills for if the inevitable meltdown came around IF the protocols for just a meltdown were in place. However, this was no ordinary meltdown when the tsunami caused by the earthquake breached the seawalls and the cooling pumps. There is no plan that I can see for the foreseeable future when it comes to the clean up.They can keep on talking about what needs to happen with Reactor #2 and what they will do when the time comes. Yet there is no plan in place to retrieve the cores and fuel rods of the other three reactors. I would think that you would have worked out a plan that would have secured the other three reactors then you deal with how to secure the second reactor and dismantling the entire plant. However, the concrete encasement like what was used at Chernobyl may not be enough to abate the radiation that is still escaping.

To be honest, I really don't think that they want us to know just exactly how bad the incident truly was on a grand scale. Think of it this way, this was the equivalent of four Chernobyl disasters when the four reactors melted down. Can you imagine just exactly how much radiation escaped into the air, the land, and the sea when these meltdowns occurred. The amount of radiation that was released is more than what we and the Japanese people have been told. It's been kept under wraps since it happened by TEPCO and the Japanese Government. The government over there knows exactly how many people that live miles away from the plant that are at risk. If what I saw is correct and that the irradiated ground water is seeping into the fresh water table and moving south towards Tokyo and Yokohama. Then if that's the case, millions of people in and around the Tokyo area are being poisoned and they don't even know it.

If I'm not mistaken, nearly the entire eastern coast of Japan sunk four to ten feet when the quake struck right?