First Real Crisis for Trump: Russia Attacked Ukraine

originally posted by: mangust69
American in Donetsk, youtu.be... video from 03Feb

Donetsk is part of Ukraine. It will not be separated. Crimea was a different sentiment, but no, Donetsk will NOT be receiving independence anytime soon.

Russia isn't the good guy there.

Soviet satellite or not, the USSR crumbled. Russia has no right to be plating war games and energy games with Ukraine.

THIS is the issue the US needs to focus on. The damn media will have you believe it's all about the ME. NO NO NO. Russia did something unprecedented in modern ages by annexing Crimea. Yea I get it, they did it for their Sevastopol and their naval base, but c'mon, even the staunchest Russian supporter cannot deny Russia violated international law on that.

yes, I agree the USA would do the same, so don't even go there with me.

originally posted by: Vector99
Donetsk is part of Ukraine. It will not be separated. Crimea was a different sentiment, but no, Donetsk will NOT be receiving independence anytime soon.

The world is changing and changing fast. Don't be surprised when borders get redrawn again. Nothing lasts forever, everything changes and Russia is pushing back against western political imperialism.

a reply to: Vector99

You're very wrong.

What Russia did in Crimea, the west, but mainly the US had done in Kosovo, the only difference being, is that it took a while.

So, what happened in Crimea is nothing unprecedented and going by the western standards, it's totally legitimate, because the people decided to be a part of Russia.

Crimea is a part of Russia now, and the only way that will change, is in a case of a war

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

I follow real world issues, western politics, and eastern politics.

The only 'norm' for border changes come from Israel occupying the west bank. And Russia.

a reply to: Nikola014

No good sir, I'm not wong in the slightest, Crimean Tatars boycotted the referendum vote. Most polling stations had green men guarding them.

If you really want to debate this, let me know. I've been following it from the start. From, the Maiden and beyond, daily.

a reply to: Vector99

It doesn't matter who boycotted what, when over 90% of the people voted in favor of joining Russia, so I'm not quite sure why is the west not recognizing this, when they have no problem recognizing the independent country of Kosovo, even though there was no referendum, only a Parliament vote.

If you're the US, you can't expect to play by a different set of rules than anyone else, and then shout democracy, violation of international law, when someone else does the exact same thing.

a reply to: Nikola014

I don't recognize the Crimean referendum as legal, sorry I just don't. I know green men were at every polling station. I know Russian troops left the Sevastopol base to fight 'insurgence'. I know Russia exceeded their troop limit at Sevastopol around the time Crimea was annexed.

Russia should have said no to Crimea, but they actually knew it was going to happen, and kind of planned it. Putin is on record prior to the annexation speaking of the annexation.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Russia is the boogie-man, but the annexation of Crimea is NOT legal and still to this day only recognized by Russia proper.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Vector99
Donetsk is part of Ukraine. It will not be separated. Crimea was a different sentiment, but no, Donetsk will NOT be receiving independence anytime soon.

The world is changing and changing fast. Don't be surprised when borders get redrawn again. Nothing lasts forever, everything changes and Russia is pushing back against western political imperialism.

Why build a wall when you can annex Mexico?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Vector99
Donetsk is part of Ukraine. It will not be separated. Crimea was a different sentiment, but no, Donetsk will NOT be receiving independence anytime soon.

The world is changing and changing fast. Don't be surprised when borders get redrawn again. Nothing lasts forever, everything changes and Russia is pushing back against western political imperialism.

Why build a wall when you can annex Mexico?

We don't need that hot mess

a reply to: Vector99

I agree with you, what has happened in Crimea is just another reminder by the superpowers that the rest of us are powerless to do anything to stop them. They can do whatever they please, as proven many times before.

The only point of my participation in anything related to Crimea, is to point out the hypocrisy coming from the west and it's members on ATS. It's a typical double standard politics. We can do whatever we want, but if anyone else tries to do the same, we will sanction them, and call it a violation of international law, while at the same time, disrespecting that same law, because it suits us. Putin said the same thing when talking about Crimea. He made a correlation between Crimea and Kosovo.

So, we can discuss whether or not what happened in Crimea or Kosovo was legal or not, but that would be pointless, because international law does not and will not ever apply to the superpowers.

Kosovo is independent. Crimea is part of Russia now. We'll just have to wait for another war if we want to see changing of anyone's borders.

a reply to: Nikola014

Or just wait for Israel to do it more. Meh sorry, that's a whole other thread.

Yes you are absolutely right in saying we the people have literally zero say in any of it. Russian constitution was changed by Putin to allow him to remain in power. IMO? that is a good thing. Russia needs it, and the US needs a convenient boogie-man to be called upon at will.

I sympathize with the ME, western nations bombed them to hell and back. Russia taking Crimea? I just cannot get behind that. Despite Russian humbleness, they are still a superpower. The 2000+ active nukes say so.

They broke the Budapest memorandum, a treaty they were signatory to.

Russia liked Yanukovych for obvious reasons, but the Ukrainians, did not. Especially when he declared a sever in ties to the EU.

The Maiden was not US sponsored, it was Ukrainian sponsored, and Russian influenced.

In Crimea the vast majority of Ukrainian army there defected to the Russian army and took control before the referendum occurred. Had the Ukrainian army resisted in Crimea, the Russian army would have never taken over a place that big.

You can't keep what isn't your. Kosovo, South Sudan, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, all of those places seceded from nations that ethnically oppressed them.

Crimea was different in that because it is ethnic Russian and was oppressed by Ukraine, it joined Russia rather than seceding from Ukraine.

a reply to: masteroftheuniverses
No, just no.

Don't tell lies about the situation.

In the real world you aren't supposed to annex things that aren't yours.

The ONLY reason Russia did it was for the Sevastopol port.

Same reason they are in Syria, Russia could care less about Assad, that naval port though...

a reply to: Vector99

Justice is served.

Ukraine was not meant to have Crimea. Serbia was not meant to have Montenegro and Kosovo. Sudan was not meant to have South Sudan. Georgia was not meant to have South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

These countries oppressed ethnic minorities.

So ethnic minorities had the right to leave them.

a reply to: masteroftheuniverses

Is Russia meant to have Koenigsburg? I think not. Poland should send some troops in and set up a referendum. Don't you agree?

a reply to: DJW001

Places won by war are legit. Russia won Crimea from Turkey. Italy won places in the north from Austria. Japan won the southern half of Sakhalin from Russia.