Losing civilities not to offend Transgenders

originally posted by: Puppylove
Best part about people being an open extremist on any side is one's douchery is easily recognized and provides support for their opposing viewpoints. As a transgender bisexual I welcome all the open extreme hostility I see in the thread towards gays and transgenders. Please continue.

listen, I'm from New York. I have spoken to and interacted with many gay people over the years. But growing up, I never knew any. To this day, I've never known anyone who "came out". Its not in my family and not in my friend pool. You do you. I'm for freedom, first.
But how I see it is how I see it.
I'm very civilized, very well mannered.
I'm a true alpha male, so to speak.
You can think I'm ignorant or whatever.
I'm only truthful.
I wish you no harm.
I do not hate you. Our personal lives are a 180, that's all.
Everyone will never agree on everything.

a reply to: bastion

How does that sych up with the belief being pushed that gender and gender preferences are solely a matter of nurture ... as in if we raise a baby in completely gender neutral environment than it can pick when it wants to be when it is ready. the sort of thinking that leads to no gendered preferencing on toy marketing because the only reason little girls prefer to pplay with dolls is because we market them with little girls and that little boys like to play with trucks is because we market them with little little boys.

If what you say is true and we actually have male brain and female brain, then the genders are different and that comes from biology and is inborn, not nurtured.

Which is it?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Advantage

I don't tend to check in the public bathrooms either. It's when the bathroom in question happens to be a changing room/locker room that you sort of can't help but notice.

But I personally dont mind sharing. You have to live like you understand freedom if you really believe in it. That pendulum swings both ways.. I dont believe in oppression.. so I dont live by oppressing anyone. I can share my feelings and heart felt beliefs, but I refuse to live hating and all that BS.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: VinylTyrant
Who gives a # about clothes its just fashion, you probably think women who wear trousers are sick in the head as well, should be taken to church and have the demon beaten out if them.

lol good chuckle. No, I don't. That's not my position in life. I'm my personal judge, not societies.

a reply to: Advantage

Sorry, but I do mind sharing when it comes to that.

Look, the reason we are told that we cannot force transgendered people to use the bathrooms that correspend to their biological sex is that it makes them feel uncomfortable.

Well, sorry, but when I see a person of the opposite biological sex who is not my husband naked in the same room with me, it makes me as uncomfortable as these transgenders say they are to have to be in the other room naked with people who share their biological sex.

Now, I canempathize with their discomfort, so I don't think they should be in that room; however, because they have that discomfort, I expect them to empathize with MY discomfort and understand why the solution might not be to subject all the other women (or men) to that same feeling they claim to be feeling in the interests of selfishly absoling their own personal discomforts.

Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bastion



If what you say is true and we actually have male brain and female brain, then the genders are different and that comes from biology and is inborn, not nurtured.

Which is it?

Both are potentially true - blood circulation in the brain is different at birth, there's also a couple of key genes at play and the white matter in the brain also shows differences on transgender - however this white matter differencce is clearer later in life (may be apparent at birth but the technology isn't good enough to say for sure) which is an unknown whether that change is set from birth or occurs in early years.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com...(10)00158-5/abstract?cc=y=
www.nature.com...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Advantage



Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

It'd certainly make sense, I've never heard anyone complain or even notice their bathroom/restroom at home is used by multiple genders (apart from the whole leaving the seat up or down thing)

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Advantage

Sorry, but I do mind sharing when it comes to that.

Look, the reason we are told that we cannot force transgendered people to use the bathrooms that correspend to their biological sex is that it makes them feel uncomfortable.

Well, sorry, but when I see a person of the opposite biological sex who is not my husband naked in the same room with me, it makes me as uncomfortable as these transgenders say they are to have to be in the other room naked with people who share their biological sex.

Now, I canempathize with their discomfort, so I don't think they should be in that room; however, because they have that discomfort, I expect them to empathize with MY discomfort and understand why the solution might not be to subject all the other women (or men) to that same feeling they claim to be feeling in the interests of selfishly absoling their own personal discomforts.

Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

I personally believe that we should go to our proper bathrooms according to penises and vaginas.. but thats MY belief. It doesnt bother me about them feeling this way or that.. I personally dont care. But with my own conduct, I refuse to hate and if changing with transexuals in a locker room is the law of that place.. I can change and be polite or I can find a facility that is more to my liking. I dont know what the answer is to this problem. I think a private 3rd gender open bathroom is the answer.. maybe. BUT it puts the business its located in at a disadvantage. I think people should toughen up and knock it off.. but my voice is small in a sea of other voices SO I REMAIN polite and live according to my personal beliefs and set of rules. At heart Im a savage.. so personal rules and oaths are necessary... because I recognize the law of the land Im in.

originally posted by: ketsuko

Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

I'm uncomfortable being unclothed around anyone, regardless of their gender or gender identity. A private dressing room for each individual works for me, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone.

a reply to: Skywatcher2011

Well, that's what we're having to do now too because you just don't know anymore what this or that place's policy is when it comes to changing, but it seems wrong when there are so many who are regular and so few who are transitioning and whose parts don't match who they say they feel they are.

It seems the official policy should be that the in-between ought to use the single facilities because then there shouldn't be much conflict over how many would need to use them -- a few families and few transitioning. Hardly ever any need to wait.

But now, you can end up with a line as anyone and everyone could end up in the line for a one seater.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ketsuko

Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

I'm uncomfortable being unclothed around anyone, regardless of their gender or gender identity. A private dressing room for each individual works for me, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone.

Do you find the inherent premise of the men's andwomen's rooms to be discriminitory?

If not, why not?

Understand that I am not talking about the world of the transgendered here. For the purposes of answering this question, let's just assume they don't exist.

a reply to: ketsuko

Next thing you know public rest rooms will now be privatized and different laws, rules, regulations of who uses these will be enforced.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ketsuko

Perhaps the proper answer is a private facility?

I'm uncomfortable being unclothed around anyone, regardless of their gender or gender identity. A private dressing room for each individual works for me, and it doesn't discriminate against anyone.

Some facilities have that... I guess its up to the person to investigate each thing to see if it fits their comfort level. Where Im at now has stalls for dressing, but open showers.. I am fine with it. Others arent and go home to shower. I DO think we can work this out and not be so nasty to one another. Militant transgenders and gays are just as bad as militant Xtians and haters. We have to disregard the morons and have discussions among rational humans. Catering to the nutty is not going to happen.

a reply to: ketsuko

A lot of people want that, but no real Trans does (In my humble opinion.) Shoot, the whole point is to live as and be a woman (or man), not some weird androgynous thing.

Here's the thing there's normal trans, they learn their voice, call pizza places and go to drive throughs to test it. Getting mam'd is a positive, it's shows you're succeeding at the voice if they go the wrong direction it means you need work. When people see you and again identify you by your gender identity, it's a success, if not, you need work. The end goal is to live and be recognized as a woman. No trans wants this gender neutral #, as that means you'll never be treated as a woman (or man) but some weird androgynous thing that completely eliminates what the entire fight is for. A normal trans just wants to successfully succeed at being recognized as and living as their own gender as much as that's possible.

Then there's the other stuff. This is where I can often run into issues with members in my own community. There are people who are more than just Trans, or Gay or anything else, normal gay and trans people just want to live normal lives and are no different from anyone else. Then there those who are truthfully deviants. There are straight non trans deviants too. These are people who's desire is to be different and recognized as such, they act and behave in extreme ways, they do things purposely to bring attention to their differences, they act in ways no normal reasonable person does. These people thrive on creating and getting a reaction. They drive transgenders and gays that are normal people living normal lives nuts because they make us all look like crazy nut ball freaks. They do this because it's what they really want. They aren't trans or gay, not really, I mean they might be to a degree, but mostly they are deviants, it's what they really want and get off on. They want a reaction, and many are bullies that want to twist that reaction to benefit themselves no matter what problems it creates for everyone, including actual normal transgender and gays.

Most normal gays and transgender you'll probably never recognize, as they've no desire to draw attention to it. Trans because the whole goal is to not be recognized and gays because most are just normal #ing people that happen to be gay.

Our entire community is so often painted by a minority of extreme deviants that get off on creating and causing as extreme a reaction as they can get, and then profiting off that reaction. They have no desire for us to ever coexist peacefully or acquire any kind of normalcy within society. In fact such a thing runs contrary to their particular life fetish.

Then there are the social justice warriors, the champions of humanity simply looking for a cause to champion others, looking for any possible offense to protect those poor minorities that can't defend themselves no matter how small and insignificant the slight, whether the minorities actually want it or not.

The deviants happily create as much chaos as they can, and the social justice warriors quickly run to their defense when they get the reaction they were looking for, which the deviants happily accept, and the whole situations ends up helping overload the news and media with stupid #, leaving those of us with real problems and the real true discrimination buried under a giant heaping pile of bull# and sensationalism.

This is hilarious. I gotta say, the more I read this thread, the more I feel like I'm in kindergarten.
If you were born a boy, use the boys potty.

If you were born a girl, use the girls potty.

If you are unsure, ask your teacher. They will let you know what facility is appropriate.

originally posted by: ketsuko


Do you find the inherent premise of the men's andwomen's rooms to be discriminitory?

No, because all men who identify as men can go to the same place, and the same for women. But telling a trans female that she has to go to a bathroom separate from other females IS discriminatory.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: ketsuko


Do you find the inherent premise of the men's andwomen's rooms to be discriminitory?

No, because all men who identify as men can go to the same place, and the same for women. But telling a trans female that she has to go to a bathroom separate from other females IS discriminatory.

no it aint, it's called reality.this is no simulation.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: ketsuko

A lot of people want that, but no real Trans does (In my humble opinion.) Shoot, the whole point is to live as and be a woman (or man), not some weird androgynous thing.

Here's the thing there's normal trans, they learn their voice, call pizza places and go to drive throughs to test it. Getting mam'd is a positive, it's shows you're succeeding at the voice if they go the wrong direction it means you need work. When people see you and again identify you by your gender identity, it's a success, if not, you need work. The end goal is to live and be recognized as a woman. No trans wants this gender neutral #, as that means you'll never be treated as a woman (or man) but some weird androgynous thing that completely eliminates what the entire fight is for. A normal trans just wants to successfully succeed at being recognized as and living as their own gender as much as that's possible.

Then there's the other stuff. This is where I can often run into issues with members in my own community. There are people who are more than just Trans, or Gay or anything else, normal gay and trans people just want to live normal lives and are no different from anyone else. Then there those who are truthfully deviants. There are straight non trans deviants too. These are people who's desire is to be different and recognized as such, they act and behave in extreme ways, they do things purposely to bring attention to their differences, they act in ways no normal reasonable person does. These people thrive on creating and getting a reaction. They drive transgenders and gays that are normal people living normal lives nuts because they make us all look like crazy nut ball freaks. They do this because it's what they really want. They aren't trans or gay, not really, I mean they might be to a degree, but mostly they are deviants, it's what they really want and get off on. They want a reaction, and many are bullies that want to twist that reaction to benefit themselves no matter what problems it creates for everyone, including actual normal transgender and gays.

Most normal gays and transgender you'll probably never recognize, as they've no desire to draw attention to it. Trans because the whole goal is to not be recognized and gays because most are just normal #ing people that happen to be gay.

Our entire community is so often painted by a minority of extreme deviants that get off on creating and causing as extreme a reaction as they can get, and then profiting off that reaction. They have no desire for us to ever coexist peacefully or acquire any kind of normalcy within society. In fact such a thing runs contrary to their particular life fetish.

Then there are the social justice warriors, the champions of humanity simply looking for a cause to champion others, looking for any possible offense to protect those poor minorities that can't defend themselves no matter how small and insignificant the slight, whether the minorities actually want it or not.

The deviants happily create as much chaos as they can, and the social justice warriors quickly run to their defense when they get the reaction they were looking for, which the deviants happily accept, and the whole situations ends up helping overload the news and media with stupid #, leaving those of us with real problems and the real true discrimination buried under a giant heaping pile of bull# and sensationalism.

RIGHT HERE ^^^^^^^ QFT!

This may get me clobbered but so be it. There are things that should be said that people need to know even if this won't win me any friends in the "transgender community". This is intended to be informational, not confrontational.

"Transgender" is an umbrella term with far too many meanings for any of those meanings to have any merit or value. It has been diluted and co-opted to the point that I cringe almost every time I hear it.

People that transition from one gender to the other, specifically those that seek or undergo hormonal or surgical treatments have a medically diagnosable condition called gender dysphoria. People don't take hormones or have surgeries without a medical diagnosis unless they are fools.. This is also known in scientific and medical literature as transsexualism, however the word "transsexual" has become politically incorrect. In today's language, transsexual people fall under the transgender umbrella along with a hell of a lot of other things that aren't the same thing.

These non-binary, gender neutral, genderfluid, genderqueer and whatever 76 Ze, Zir and Hir pronouns Tumblr and
Facebook have come up with also fall under the transgender umbrella but folks shouldn't make the mistake of thinking TRANSTRENDERS are the same as the people that actually change gender/sex because they have a medical condition. It is these transtrenders and those that fall short of being accepted in a gender role opposite to the sex they were born as that are making all the waves and yelling the loudest. They have problems with gender EXPRESSION and gender ROLES, not an innate sense of being the wrong sex physically so don't make the mistake of confusing the various groups or lumping them all together.

originally posted by: Grambler
it seems that these laws are mainly being pushed by non-trans people that feel they are speaking for trans people.

I could be wrong, but to me it seems that most trans people want what everyone does; fair access to jobs, housing, to not be attacked for who they are, etc. They don't want special privileges that say its against the law to hurt their feelings. Its social justice warriors that are looking for a fight that push these issues.

Precisely and this "movement" is doing a great disservice to the people that actually suffer from gender dysphoria that want to transition, blend into society and move on with their lives.

As someone that understands these things all too well that has studied the science and medicine involved as well as observing the sociological and societal changes that have taken place over the last 50+ years, it saddens me to see that while the professional understanding of this condition has improved tremendously, that even in this day of greater awareness people in general have more contempt and disdain for trans people than they ever had. I attribute many of these current attitudes to the transtrenders and the SJW's and identity politics that turn people off and blind them to the issues faced by and the lives of those that genuinely suffer from gender dysphoria.

Disclaimer of acknowledged bias: I suffered tremendously with gender dysphoria as a child and adolescent.

People should go to the bathroom they've made a serious effort to project as.

If you're trans female, have decided to forgo shaving, grow a heavy beard, and well I think you get the idea, and decide to go into the women's room saying in your deep male voice. I identify as a female. You're being patently ridiculous.

If however the same person has gone all out to the best of their ability, and is clearly attempting to project as female, is just as patently absurd to tell them to go to the men's room.

If someone is clearly making an effort respect their differences and let them go to the bathroom they are trying to project as. Don't be an ass.

At the same time, if it's not important enough to at least make a real effort don't be an asshole when people call you on it.