White House announces exit from TPP, warns of possible exit from NAFTA

originally posted by: AutonomousMeatPuppet
Ross Perot called it. NAFTA is the giant sucking sound of jobs going to Mexico.

True, it lowers prices for everyone, at the expense of those left without a job.

Everyone wins, except those few who lose big time. Very democratic though.

Every major corporation follows suit, and suddenly everyone is losing big time, except those few who benefit big time.

Free trade with industrialized countries is generally good. It doesn't shift production. When there is a wage difference or trade imbalance, an equalizing tariff makes sense.

35 states largest export trading partner is Canada. Repeal or renegotiation of that deal could damage 39 states (4 states trade with Mexico more). We would lose more jobs and send the country into a depression over night if we messed with NAFTA in a way Trump wants.

So in other words, Trump just bent us over in front of China and handed the reigns over to them.

Way to go President Dumpster fire!

But then again, I am no economist by any stretch of the word, nor do I have a crystal ball to predict how trade partnerships will go either way. If it works out for us, great! I will congratulate the President for having the intestinal fortitude to do this.


But let's be clear, if this goes bad for us - you have no one else to blame but yourself.

a reply to: Pyle

Re-negotiating NAFTA could easily enhance the U.S./Canada trade relationship.

a reply to: WhyDidIJoin

right now we sell it to the states for about 8 dollars less a barrel because it comes from Alberta. (Dirty oil, they call it)

It's a heavier grade of oil. There's different price brackets for different qualities of oil. Thats not going to change.

originally posted by: Lilroanie
a reply to: lacrimoniousfinale

Thanks, but I honestly wasn't offering an opinion, just asking a question to clarify this for me.

I see your point to an extent, but the difference is the stuff the we need can easily and cheaply be produced here to my knowledge with industry/agriculture revitalized in the US. Of course we would need trade deals for stuff we want and that's fine. Just make deals equitable for all.

I was just confused because some were making it sound like the US cannot take care of itself and never has and we have to have these inequitable trade deals or we will all be naked and starving and and and etc etc.

So to reiterate what exactly can the US Not produce that is vital to it's survival and wants(to an extent), that a revitalized agricultural/industrial infrastructure would be incapable of accomplishing?

And before it is pointed out, there are of course exceptions to every rule. I'm just asking in a broad sense, overall doing the things we used to do and do well to take care of ourselves.

Lil

One man's want is another man's need, and vice versa. Where do you draw the line? I think you are actually asking the wrong question. Instead of asking "What exactly can the US produce ..." (to which the answer is "pretty much everything"), you ought to be asking "What exactly should or shouldn't the US be producing?" The answer to the first part of that is the sort of things I mentioned in my first post, to which I might add software, aerospace and aircraft production, genetic engineering and so on. The US has world leading companies in all of these fields, and all will shed jobs if we erect trade barriers.

The second part has already been answered to a large degree by consumer preference. Clothing, certain agricultural products, cheap consumer goods and so on can all be produced more cheaply abroad. So just accept that you import these things.

The whole premise of the US having to "take care of itself" makes no more sense than you having to "take care of yourself". You probably don't make your own clothes or grow your own food, choosing instead to buy them from people who can do those things more efficiently than you. So why should it be any different for the country as a whole?

From: www.cnn.com...

""President Donald Trump on Monday will start to unravel the behemoth trade deal he inherited from his predecessor, as two sources familiar with the matter told CNN he plans to sign an executive order to withdraw from the negotiating process of the Trans-Pacific Partnership.""

Trump signs executive order withdrawing US from TPP trade deal

Making good on a campaign promise, President Trump on Monday signed an executive order withdrawing the United States from the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal.

Keeping campaign promises on DAY ONE.
Go Trump!!!


And...

He also signed a measure imposing a federal employee hiring freeze

a reply to: xuenchen

Thank GOD! The TPP was super draconian, I read the entire deal and it was bad, bad, news for us. It basically gave the entertainment industry it's own tribunal court system where they could just impose fines on people for copyright infringement without an actual court case.

I am surprised, he is actually moving fast and doing much of what he promised, and it's only Monday.

a reply to: Lilroanie
I had the same question on another thread; if the TPP and NAFTA agreements are so bad that they must be jetissoned, then it would be interesting to figure out what the US imports and exports.

After fishing around, i found this to be an eye opener (you judge if it's reliable on your own criteria) : US imports & exports


From here, and 2014 figures, i get that the US export almost 1.5$ trilliion (2nd largest exporter in the world) being lead by refined petroleum at 7.11% the cars for 4.18%.

Destinations ?

Canada ($241B)
Mexico ($194B)
China ($134B)
Japan ($67.5B)
Germany ($61.6B).


The US import 450 products, worth almost 2.2 trillion.
the Us is the largest importer in the world with crude petroleum worth just over 10%, then cars worth 7.09%.

From whom ?

China ($432B)
Canada ($331B)
Mexico ($291B)
Japan ($128B)
Germany ($121B)

Taking each country individually, there's a huge trade imbalance (China almost x3, Japan x 2, Germany x 2)
Over 450 products ... m'okaay ...

What does the US import from China (N°1 trading partner) ? Clothing, anything with plastic involved, macine parts, electronic composants...

Eeverything and anything that people use everyday.
If a trade war were to start, with tit for tat tarif impositions, without any manufacturing capabilities in the US; costs will skyrocket.

Could the US build, from scratch, clothing factories, high tech labs for making motherboards and cards for smartphones, tablets et lap tops ?

Toys at christmas !!!!!!
Will kids have to make do with wooden toys in their stockings in the future !?!
.....

The point being, that the US imports so much from so few, that i can't see the capability of picking up the slack from homegrown sources : the homegrown, alternative, sources don't exist in the US.

a reply to: Damiel

a reply to: lacrimoniousfinale

Thanks for the info you two. I guess my problem is I'm old(ish) and remember when I could buy 'Made in America' and now 30+ years later I STILL have these items (flannel shirts for example) in my closet and they look good. I just bought a flannel shirt 'made in Taiwan' last year, washed it 3 times and the seams are unraveling. Same goes for my T-Shirts, cars, electronics, whatever you want to describe. If it's under 30 yo it's junk that won't last long enough to earn back whatever ridiculous price you paid for it.

So knowing I'm being unrealistic, since our manufacturing has been decimated, to expect quality like that again, I still want equitable trade deals with the countries we do trade with.

Even 'Made in America' doesn't mean quality anymore. I tried buying only MIA stuff and it is better but still not what it used to be. Maybe it's just another way to keep us all broke 'consuming'. I dunno really, and worse I'm getting to where I just want NWO to take over and get it over with. Dying by degrees and having nothing to show for your work anymore is just... disheartening. For me it's getting to be a quality vs quantity of life thing. shrug

Thanks again for the info, it helped answer my question a bit.

Lil

a reply to: visitedbythem

So do you want to a tax of 35% on all the oil you import?
Are you willing to pay more for food from other countries?

You do realize tariff's go both ways?
You do realize ALL costs get paid by the consumer?

You buy a ford car some of the parts are made in Canada. Your tariff laws make ford buy the part from themselves for 35% more. Ford bill you for this increase.

MIlk same story.
Grain to make Coors?Same story.
Scotch from Ireland same story.
Cheap ammo? Same story.

a reply to: Winstonian

That was targeted at reducing Chinese counterfeits of american products: movies, t-shirts etc. so should be approving it.

a reply to: Snarl

How clever you identified almost all the countries That do have have trade agreements with you. To bad you want to rip up almost everytrade trade deals they are in. sigh... palm face.

a reply to: Snarl

How clever you identified almost all the countries That do have have trade agreements with you. To bad you want to rip up almost everytrade trade deals they are in. sigh... palm face.

a reply to: Snarl

How clever you identified almost all the countries That do have have trade agreements with you. To bad you want to rip up almost everytrade trade deals they are in. sigh... palm face.

a reply to: SmilingROB

Yes. I'm good with all those. I have sever thousand $ in ammo and never need to buy anymore. I'll gladly pay more for parts. I don't like scotch or coors, and I have a small brewery I can restart anytime. I have a fast electric bike, and generate my own power with solar, and hold it in a battery bank. I ride for free. My job is 4 miles from home. Anything else?

There is no problem in trade between Canada and the US. There is problem in trade between Mexico and the US due to different salaries.