Russia is our ride to space, are you crazy?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

´Why woud they be terrified when there is no serious threat from Russia? I do understand people in US has no idea what it really is in Europe. Seeing world through the glass which has US flag as a sticker in place of the lens can be quite difficult.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: UKTruth

Did you think Obama was weak when he allowed Russia to annex part of Georgia in 2008 and then sought closer relations with them in 2009? If so, then why do you not think the same applies for Trump? At least in Obama's case the US and Russia were still more or less allies. Plus, he didn't approach the table acting like the US had to apologize for something.

Because Russia did not annexe Crimea when Trump was President. Pretty obvious answer really, and it baffles me that you could lay that at Trump's door when it was Obama who let it happen.
Obama, as I have said before, took the right course of action in 2009, but was not a good enough leader to advance anything. Putin made an idiot out of him.

With Crimea, it has to be handled in the most appropriate way. Trump will try and clean up Obama's mess I am sure, but wading into a confrontation on it now seems rather silly. You might also like to consider what the people of Crimea want in your equations. I am sure Trump will in his.

a reply to: dollukka

No serious threat? At the beginning of last year Russia moved nuclear-capable Iskander missiles into Kaliningrad. This can be seen as nothing other than a threat towards the Baltics. And let's not forget that ever since the annexation of Crimea Putin has been more than to happy to threaten the use of nukes. Then of course there's the fact that Russia has actively been trying to destabilize the governments of these countries. Plus, there's that whole thing about Russia annexing land from two former SSRs. I'd say that all former SSRs regardless of if they're a NATO member or not have been given plenty of cause to feel threatened. Even Russia's loyal lapdog Belarus is looking towards the West now.

a reply to: UKTruth

So because Trump wasn't President when it happened it's okay if he wants to join the illustrious company of nations that back Russia's play? I'm sure his supporters will be thrilled to hear that he agrees with Iran and North Korea.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if he was President when these events occurred or not. It was the annexation of Crimea, the breaking ties with NATO, and the downing of MH17 that got us to where we are today. If Trump wants to seek closer ties with Russia then fine. But he can't ignore these things happened when he does. Not only that, he can't come across as apologetic either. To do so is pretty much a slap in the face to every US ally in Europe.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I am quite aware of Kalingrad unit, it is in very tactical place and if US would have been in where Russia is today (squeezed by NATO )this base would have been there much sooner. It doesn´t say they will use it first, i am sure when NATO makes actions this place is there to make them think twice.
Guns do not kill people, people do.

a reply to: dollukka

The only person making threats about nuclear strikes is Putin. And even if we ignore the Iskanders they still have reason to fear. Like I said Russia has been trying to destabilize these governments. Plus, like I said before, they've annexed Crimea, part of Georgia, and puppeted South Ossetia and Transnistria. Why do you think they shouldn't feel threatened?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: UKTruth

So because Trump wasn't President when it happened it's okay if he wants to join the illustrious company of nations that back Russia's play? I'm sure his supporters will be thrilled to hear that he agrees with Iran and North Korea.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if he was President when these events occurred or not. It was the annexation of Crimea, the breaking ties with NATO, and the downing of MH17 that got us to where we are today. If Trump wants to seek closer ties with Russia then fine. But he can't ignore these things happened when he does. Not only that, he can't come across as apologetic either. To do so is pretty much a slap in the face to every US ally in Europe.

That is quite a leap from what i actually said.
If you can't actually have a discussion without jumping to extreme black and white statements, then what's the point?

There is zero upside to escalating military tension regarding Crimea now. The time to do it was immediately. Russia have now embedded themselves and the people there have actually offered support to Russia and prefer the way it is.
As for US allies in Europe, you don't really have any. You have countries that take your money and laugh at you behind your backs, but little else.

a reply to: UKTruth

I'll agree there's not much that can be done about Crimea now. Although, to be fair there's not much that could have been done about it then. Putin made it clear that if anyone tried to retake Crimea the nukes would fly. Since then though he's made sure that Crimea will not be returned to Ukraine. For one, Ukraine doesn't exactly have much of an economy anymore thanks the civil war perpetuated by Russia. On top of that he's also made it almost impossible for anyone who doesn't support the annexation of Crimea from obtaining a permit of residency.

So, no, I can't see Crimea going back to Ukraine for the foreseeable future unfortunately. That said, Russia should have to at least pay some price for their transgressions. If nothing else, they should be required to remove all support for the separatists and be forced to pay a rather hefty amount of compensation to Ukraine. Because if Putin is able to get away with this without any repercussions that will be the second time. What's to stop him from doing it again?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Only threat comes to them due NATO, when you accept it you see bigger picture. Right now you are all about how bad Russia is ( it has been cornered ) and to you Russians have no right to defend themselves? It is quite American view.
Having no understanding how climate has changed in Europe since US started meddling here with NATO. Without NATO nothing this would have never been happened.
Let´s take a look at Finland, right next door of Russia. NATO has been offering Finland option to NATO membership for years and some co-operation has been taken place. Yet Finland is seeking better option for them which is Scandinavian co-operation in war time threat, instead of being NATO puppet , why not NATO you might ask.. the reason is that it is too expencive and when SHTF Nato won´t do anything. Ever since NATO and US has been meddlin in Europe near Russia everything has gone sour. It is the Big plan to those who really seeks war and that part is USA.

a reply to: dollukka

So Russia's current aggression is only due to NATO? Then explain Russia's actions towards Sweden. For example, why did Russia simulate a nuclear strike on Sweden last year?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

And NATO does not simulate such a actions ? Sweden is in same position as Finland, NATO has been courting them same way. This is how Russia plays, whenever there is discussions between NATO and a country which is courted to be part of them Russia throw up a military drill.. nothing new there.
Are you scared for Sweden ? Don´t be Finland is between them and it is also one reason why Sweden yet has not approved being part of NATO yet, they do are intrested in Scandinavian co-operation before being paying customer to NATO machine.

a reply to: dollukka

So in other words, just let Russia bully other nations. I mean it was only after Ukraine and Georgia applied to NATO but were denied admittance that Russia took land from them.

originally posted by: dashen
I see people are getting pretty stupid about russian influence over trump.

so i have to ask, are you frikkin stupid?

They are our only official ride to the ISS and space for our non military astronauts

We have treaties with them going back to 1824 and yet somehow we have a few rabid loonies pushing to start pushing around the great drunken bear.

The same people who are usually the rabid ANTIWAR protesters

Bad Move Comerade.

Peace and trade with Russia is vastly superior to sanctions and cooling of relations.
Now maybe if we stop putting missiles all over their border, theyll stop annexing strategic locations.

I guess most people dont know or dont remember hiding under their desks during nuclear bomb drills during the cold war.

Good times.

and then this happened

McCain just salty cause all his missions are fails. Including his own over Nam.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

NATO bible once again. Russia is doing whatever it can to stop NATO spreading like cancer on its borders, USA would do exactly the same. I am not Russian or like Russian macho play ( which exactly it is ) , but being a neighbour of Russia i know how Russia play as i have seen same play for decades, it is all macho BS .
The problem is US and NATO playing new border countries with politics which are promising more than actually gives to them and of course those countries which were once part of USSR were vunerable to that play ( in case if .... ) .

NATO tries ice how thick it is and how far it can go.. that is what you should be concerned with.

a reply to: dollukka

And Putin is also seeing how far he can go before he gets his hand slapped. That's why he likes Trump. Trump wants to pull back US support from NATO and is also unreasonably friendly towards Russia. Which means Putin can reach his hand farther than before.

Also, the US and Russia do share a border.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: UKTruth

I'll agree there's not much that can be done about Crimea now. Although, to be fair there's not much that could have been done about it then. Putin made it clear that if anyone tried to retake Crimea the nukes would fly. Since then though he's made sure that Crimea will not be returned to Ukraine. For one, Ukraine doesn't exactly have much of an economy anymore thanks the civil war perpetuated by Russia. On top of that he's also made it almost impossible for anyone who doesn't support the annexation of Crimea from obtaining a permit of residency.

So, no, I can't see Crimea going back to Ukraine for the foreseeable future unfortunately. That said, Russia should have to at least pay some price for their transgressions. If nothing else, they should be required to remove all support for the separatists and be forced to pay a rather hefty amount of compensation to Ukraine. Because if Putin is able to get away with this without any repercussions that will be the second time. What's to stop him from doing it again?

This is what Trump needs to sort out. I would not start with Russia though. My first step would be to sort out the UN.
Trump can only deal with the situation he inherits on the 21st January and as far as Russia is concerned, they have so utterly outflanked the west that it will be difficult.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: dollukka

And Putin is also seeing how far he can go before he gets his hand slapped. That's why he likes Trump. Trump wants to pull back US support from NATO and is also unreasonably friendly towards Russia. Which means Putin can reach his hand farther than before.

Also, the US and Russia do share a border.

Putin does not like Trump, are you kidding? He strikes me as not liking anyone and building relationships based on what he can achieve for Russia. If Trump goes into this REALLY believing that Putin likes him, then more fool him. Don't get fooled by the soundbites they might throw at each other via the media. They had a mutual enemy in Hillary Clinton and Obama and they still have a mutual enemy with ISIS. The relationship will probably start there.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Okay, so Russia on their own continent playing games reminding the other kids in the Eurasian school yard that they're the big kid on the playground means that they're hostile aggressors that must be stopped.

Nevermind that they're tolerating US leaving nukes on THEIR continent despite having thousands that can get their via ICBM, cruise missile, jet, stealth, hypersonic, sub and might as well assume direct drop from outer space; AND they even still work with us ferrying US to outer space civilian wise because our liftoff capability is too tied up running military missions to space; etc.

Russia's annexation of Crimea somehow over shadows the US deploying Al Qaeda into Russia's ally Syria to overthrow the government there, thus causing a disaster generally likened to a "genocide", and the US even has the balls to blame it on Russia that they backed their ally where they have actual military bases there since 1972... while the US has multiple allies in that region ever bit as bad as the Assad Regime (or worse).

All of that (and a whole lot more) US games of empire perpetrated in the Eurasian continent in general and against Russia's interests in particular, and despite them being ridiculously generous in their portrayal of US on the world media stage... in your reality they're the BAD GUYS whom must be put in check... despite the fact that the US is ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE PLANET from Eurasia.

It's only hypocrisy when they do it!



Imagine for a moment, WHAT IF Russia sent Hezbollah into se Panama to blow up the rightful government there, but we sent aid in to support the Panamanian government, and they managed to resist the incursion, but half the country got blown to pieces in the process, and then Russia got on TV grandstanding that it was actually our fault, and then proceeded to start banging the drums of nuclear war (and expelling diplomats, and etc etc etc). That's the ACTUAL reality here, not this line the MSM spoon fed you the past 8 years.

A least I'm crystal clear now what all of the truth is about all this "must stop teh Russia FAKE NEWS" via AI automated censorship across all of social media & Google, the reality check I just gave you they need to task Snopes & Correct The Record with scrubbing discussion of that out of 'reality'. And people thought post-9/11 patriotic fervor got out of control? Hey, at least we had the towers collapsing on TV 450 times in a row for three straight days on every news channel to rationalize that noise for all of US.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Well Russia is the one that moved nuclear capable missiles into range of the Baltic states.

Tilt. US invented the bomb, placed Jupiter missiles in Turkey first before the Soviets reacted in kind, placing their missiles in Cuba.

The deal to remove them on both parts is what ended the "Cuban Missile Crisis". Sets the precedent for future provocation which begins again when US moves warheads to the UK and Germany after NATO is established.

Anything after that is a response on the USSR and now Russian part. Including what else you said about the "Baltic States".
Easy for bullies to blame their victims when they hit back.

What I'm saying is that NATO and Russia had a healthy working relationship for a longtime. Russia is the one that chose to end that relationship. They can't now turn around and complain about worsening relations when they are the ones that removed themselves from a partnership that fostered good relations for decades.

Thats not completely honest either. Before Russia dissolved the Warsaw pact and left eastern Europe, NATO agreed not to encroach into the vacuum left behind...

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has accused the West of breaking promises made after the fall of the Iron Curtain, saying that NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe violated commitments made during the negotiations over German reunification. Newly discovered documents from Western archives support the Russian position.

Spiegel

Anyway, the current NATO armaments build up along the length of the Russian border in numerous eastern europe countries is hostile and unwarranted. Detente in the form of MAD is still in effect, guaranteeing total destruction if one or the other violates each others peaceful coexistence. Just what NATO is doing, right now. Anything the Federation of Russia does is a defensive reaction to this, not an 'excuse' to justify more offensive posturing on the part of NATO.

Its always the US thats starts the s***.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

it`s not ridiculous it`s the exact same thing.