Is there a dumbing down of music

a reply to: NwoDedispU

Not sure what you're talking about.

The Hollies - The Air That I Breathe


The Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

a reply to: supermilkman

Classical order is sophisticated while other music is just relying on sound effects, computer editing software etc.

I have always loved Albinonis Adagio. There is nothing wrong with Scrillex in small doses, not my go to music.
This was considered evil back in the day of "classical music"

the Devils Tritone:



mentalfloss.com...

But the Devil's Tritone's deepest roots are in classical music, where it has often served as a leitmotif to signal the presence of something sinister. Professor John Deathridge of King's College London told BBC News that medieval arrangements employed the tritone to represent the devil, Roman Catholic composers sometimes used it for referencing the crucifixtion, and by the 19th century "you have got lots of presentations of evil built around the tritone" in classical pieces, as in Beethoven’s 1805 opera Fidelio. When it comes to metal’s cred with tritones, there’s “a big connection between heavy rock music and Wagner,” Deathridge said, and generally such tunes “have cribbed quite a lot from 19th Century music

a reply to: FauxMulder

Yes, I heard that about Tool with the fibonacci sequence. In fact the fibonacci sequence and golden phi ratio is tied into classical order.

One of the Tool band members even recommended the book "Nothing in this Book is True."

Cool video by the way.

a reply to: supermilkman

from your own quote

and it raises certain expectations in an audience attuned to its language.

"audience attuned to it's language" Are you trying to tell me you were born enjoying classical music. I would guess that you were indirectly listening to some pop tunes that your parents radio was playing at the time. Classical music you acquired later?

Philip Glass does classical music ..not to everyones taste. I admire him for his work




Nowextend your musical taste and listen to some fine "technically proficient" musicians
King Crimson - Red

a reply to: Tiger5

supermilkman - this is very relevant

Classical music was actually the pop music of its time. Opera was simply the MTV acts or Rock Operas of modern times. The ancient waltzes were a damn sight more lascivious than the modern pallid versions

a reply to: supermilkman

Classical order is sophisticated while other music is just relying on sound effects, computer editing software etc.

"Sound effects"..what do you think of the piano tines produce echoing in a grand piano? Sound effects could also be considered an orchestra playing in a music bowl.

You really should not be so combative to others listening tastes. Speaking of computer effects - you do realize that all modern music is recorded with Digital Processing? How far down do you want to fall?

a reply to: supermilkman

I still think classical order music is sophisticated.

And yet you wrote this thread? Sounds like you change rose coloured glasses too quickly

"Does Communism make people more disciplined?"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Western countries have more freedom of expression but less discipline....

More individuality = less discipline
Less individuality = more discipline?

I really have to question your sincerity...

a reply to: supermilkman

sophisticated
səˈfɪstɪkeɪtɪd/Submit adjective 1. having, revealing, or involving a great deal of worldly experience and knowledge of fashion and culture.

Carefully read what sophisticated actually means

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: supermilkman

It depends on the type of metal you are thinking of.

There are bands which are there to rip your face off and stamp on it, which has its uses for those moments when you cannot even formulate a sentence, such is your rage or pain or sorrow. But for those moments when what you want is epic, soaring melody, crushing rhythms, mind bending solos and heroic composition, metal has a band or a tune for that too.

I agree but my argument is that music that strays away from classical order is less sophisticated. A lot of the new music, which is still good, is actually simple and using sound effects/post processing effects to make them sound better.

Without the sound effects the music probably wouldn't be interesting.

a reply to: supermilkman

is actually simple and using sound effects/post processing effects to make them sound better. Without the sound effects the music probably wouldn't be interesting.

I will ask you this and see if you can give me an honest answer: was there ever a time that you didnt like Nights In White Satin, maybe like after a relationship breakup? Are you trying to tell me that "Nights" evokes the same emotional investment from your soul each and everytime you listen to it?

Better yet would expect to hear Albinonis Adagio in G Min at your own wedding?

a reply to: supermilkman

Again, it depends on who made the music and how they went about it.

As for sound effects, in metal music, sound effects are considered largely secondary to the fundamental proficiency necessary to create atmosphere and emotion with the instrument of choice. Many metallers consider it a mark of a bad band, when they rely on fixing things in the mix, or relying on sound effects to make a point in the music. If a band lacks the ability to pull off that which should be second nature to a performance artist, like nailing the wail in a solo EVERY time, rather than just that once in the studio, then it shows when they perform live, and metal heads, being the anal bastards that we are, will notice that and our opinion of a band will collapse.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I don't think there is any such thing as the devil but it seems like the tritone/flat fifth is just another scale. Looks similar to a pentatonic (penta = 5?) or blues scale in fact.

There are literally hundreds of different modes, keys, scales etc. You should buy a guitar grimoire book. Calling certain scales the "devil" doesn't make sense to me.

Personally I find this more interesting.

Last of the Mohican's Promentory on acoustic

a reply to: supermilkman

I also find this more interesting compared to most of your metal music.

The Lonely Shepherd


Here's an abstract thought: playing single notes = individuality. playing chords = communism?

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: supermilkman

is actually simple and using sound effects/post processing effects to make them sound better. Without the sound effects the music probably wouldn't be interesting.

I will ask you this and see if you can give me an honest answer: was there ever a time that you didnt like Nights In White Satin, maybe like after a relationship breakup? Are you trying to tell me that "Nights" evokes the same emotional investment from your soul each and everytime you listen to it?

Better yet would expect to hear Albinonis Adagio in G Min at your own wedding?

The point is it's sophisticated. It's structured, has layers, chord progression. Yes, I think it does have an emotional response as well. You can even hear an orchestra playing in the background. Funny how you can see classical architecture and sculptures throughout the video.

I still think that music that deviates from classical order is more simplified. It's not necessarily a bad thing but I think we can all agree that the more technical and sophisticated the art is the better. Anyone can draw a stick figure, not everyone can draw the Mona Lisa.

Id say the dumbing down are those silly country songs that are annoying as hell. I get your point, most pop doesn't even require the band members to be very much of a musician. There is still good stuff, just need to find it, its not on the radio, its lost in youtube abyss,,but its there.

Dumb music has been around forever, right alongside of dumb music critics. Nothing new here, although I must say you've got to have a fair degree of intelligence to operate analog synths, VSTs, midi controllers and mixing boards to produce audio files.

originally posted by: synthetichuman
Id say the dumbing down are those silly country songs that are annoying as hell. I get your point, most pop doesn't even require the band members to be very much of a musician. There is still good stuff, just need to find it, its not on the radio, its lost in youtube abyss,,but its there.

I agree. I think the hidden gems are better.

a reply to: 4003fireglo

Yes, sound editing and engineering is an art form in itself. I'm not talking down on modernism, I'm just saying that classical order is more technical and sophisticated. It's not just music either, it's any art form or mathematics.

Anyone can draw this:


Not too many people can draw this:


Anyone can equate this:


Not too many people can equate this:


You're either a master at a skill or you're a follower in training.

a reply to: synthetichuman

You make a very important point here.

Country music, some of it at least, used to be gritty, used to have wit, a message and a real value to it. Johnny Cash, for example, wrote some truly inspired work, which took influences from many different styles to create a great blend of passionately constructed, although simple sounding music.

He was an artist in the truest sense. These days, one of the first names you think of in terms of modern country music, might be that lackwit, Luke Bryan. His song, "Its Time To Take My Drunk Ass Home" is EASILY one of the most moronic, and utterly merit free pieces of composition I have EVER heard in my life. That is not to say that good country music is not still being made, but the top sellers in the genre at the moment are a bunch of over grown frat boys, with soft hands, no actual experience of the original western way of life. Their songs are a glorification of the wet, watered down, feckless, meandering, directionless, vomit minded party cowboy, the fellow who will wear chaps like a champ, but has never even seen a horse, let alone sat atop one whilst about actual business.

a reply to: supermilkman

Calling certain scales the "devil" doesn't make sense to me

I suspect you haven't studied or played music yourself.

You're the one who introduced the devil;

They also come off devilish

You missed the point of what I'm trying to say that namely the Devils Tri-tone can be used in beautiful melody.