Apparent paradox in the garden of eden

Just watching some ancient aliens nonsense. About demons.

Made me think.

How could Adam and Eve know it was wrong to eat form the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until they had eaten of it?

Surely before that they didn't have knowledge of good and evil...
And therefore didn't know it was wrong...

a reply to: Mandy555

Genesis 2:17

'from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat'

Yeah I'm pretty sure they were told not to eat it.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: Mandy555

Genesis 2:17

from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat

Yeah I'm pretty sure they were told not to eat it.

But knowing that you should do as you are told implies a knowledge and discernment thry did not yet have.

a reply to: Mandy555

I understand the "knowledge of good and evil" to simply be the knowledge of how to use good and evil to feed personal arrogance.

People do good out of arrogance, people do evil out of arrogance, in the end, its all the same.

a reply to: Mandy555

Here's the rest of 2:17

for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.

That's a pretty explicit threat and warning to me. I'm sure they had at least enough understanding to realize there were some consequences.

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

yes they were told but they didn`t have the capacity to know that it was wrong until after they ate.
good and evil, right and wrong were completely alien concepts to them. even if god told them don`t from that tree because it`s wrong and I forbid it and it`s wrong to disobey me. They still would have ate from it.

Without the knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil there is nothing god could have said that would have prevented them from eating from it. he even told them they would Die if they ate from it but even that wasn`t enough to stop them.

if they already understood the concept of right/wrong, good/evil then what was the point of having that tree?
if they already understood the concept of right/wrong, good/evil then they were going to be kicked out of the garden even if they didn`t eat from it.

The fruit gave them the awareness of good and evil, Cain is the path we chose to take with that knowledge. Eve was told she would have pain during childbirth for the transgression, we can compare that to the pains the world has gone through throughout our society and civilization.

The bible uses parables and metaphors to tell the story of the human condition.

Well, according to Genesis, Adam was told before Eve was even created.

Nothing implies that that they were anything but innocent, like children who only learn by doing, not by being threatened with incomprehensible things.

Anyway, now the program says it was all just aliens anyway (it always says that).

Furthermore, if the bible is just metaphores it can mean anything you want (like aliens). If it's literally true, god seems to have been extremely unfair to his creation.

a reply to: Mandy555

I think it's the wording that confuses things. I don't think Adam and Eve were without self awareness before eating from the tree. I also don't think it was actually literal fruit from a tree either.

a reply to: Mandy555


The story had to written that way or the rest of the bible would never exist.

when god said don`t eat from that tree, if adam and eve said ok and they didn`t eat from it ,well that would be the end of story, short and boring.no wars, no redeemers, no saviors, no chosen people, no wise proverbs,no 40 years wandering the desert, just a bunch of naked people running all over the earth and procreating.
That would be a pretty boring story, lots of sex but no action, or adventure,or plot,or spine tingling cliff hangers.

I imagine if it was a movie it would be very much like a modern day porn movie.

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

you can see from that quote that a whole lot of them weren`t going to be living in the garden of eden anyways, unless the garden covered the whole earth.

originally posted by: Mandy555
Just watching some ancient aliens nonsense. About demons.

Made me think.

How could Adam and Eve know it was wrong to eat form the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until they had eaten of it?

Surely before that they didn't have knowledge of good and evil...
And therefore didn't know it was wrong...

Take that thought a little further. The god of Genesis told them they would die. The serpent said they would gain knowledge. Who turned out to be telling them the truth and who lied?

The foundation of blind obedience to a lying god started in the Garden of Eden. Weird, huh?

What I find contradictory is that the bible which is basically pro god propaganda, in my opinion makes the devil look like the good guy.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
What I find contradictory is that the bible which is basically pro god propaganda, in my opinion makes the devil look like the good guy.

Exactly. If you were told to read the bible without any outside influence or bias, you would think "god" the antagonist and Satan as the protagonist. Jesus seems to be redeeming his father's sins more than humanity's.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
What I find contradictory is that the bible which is basically pro god propaganda, in my opinion makes the devil look like the good guy.

Exactly. If you were told to read the bible without any outside influence or bias, you would think "god" the antagonist and Satan as the protagonist. Jesus seems to be redeeming his father's sins more than humanity's.

Man is the antagonist and satan the influencer, God is the judge
You are blaming the judge for carrying out the sentence, not the perpetrator and enabler.

You are just transferring blame to someone else, seems God in this case.

a reply to: Mandy555

The Garden of Eden itself is the biggest paradox. It ain't paradise if you can get thrown out.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
What I find contradictory is that the bible which is basically pro god propaganda, in my opinion makes the devil look like the good guy.

Exactly. If you were told to read the bible without any outside influence or bias, you would think "god" the antagonist and Satan as the protagonist. Jesus seems to be redeeming his father's sins more than humanity's.

Man is the antagonist and satan the influencer, God is the judge
You are blaming the judge for carrying out the sentence, not the perpetrator and enabler.

You are just transferring blame to someone else, seems God in this case.

No.

That god is to blame for nearly every death in the bible. Children being eaten by bears, babies being dashed against stones, families drowned and put to the sword, countless innocent women being raped, etc etc. The worst thing Satan did was call the god's bluff with Job.

A judge? Sure. But that doesn't absolve him of his horrors. A judge that makes talking back to your parents punishable by death or make rape victims marry their rapists... that's still an evil bastard.

Satan told the truth and tried to enlighten humanity at every turn, to the god's chagrin.

Humanity is simply the innocent bystander in that whole mess.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Mandy555
Just watching some ancient aliens nonsense. About demons.

Made me think.

How could Adam and Eve know it was wrong to eat form the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, until they had eaten of it?

Surely before that they didn't have knowledge of good and evil...
And therefore didn't know it was wrong...

Take that thought a little further. The god of Genesis told them they would die. The serpent said they would gain knowledge. Who turned out to be telling them the truth and who lied?

The foundation of blind obedience to a lying god started in the Garden of Eden. Weird, huh?

Death didn't exist then, and they did die eventually. I think in some ways what happened when they ate the fruit was opened up the can of worms of unbridled duality. Good and evil, the ultimate duality, and evil, the worst thing unleashed on the world.

originally posted by: Paradeox
a reply to: Abysha

Death didn't exist then, and they did die eventually. I think in some ways what happened when they ate the fruit was opened up the can of worms of unbridled duality. Good and evil, the ultimate duality, and evil, the worst.

Nothing stated they were immortal before that and the god didn't kill them so... no. In fact, the god was speaking to the other gods and stated his fear that they would become knowledgeable like them, which scared them, and they cast them out with curses to boot.

That's like me saying you'll die if you eat a tomato. I'd be right because you'll eventually die but we all know that's not what I meant.

Because it was a "set up" from the beginning. Not only that, but their supposedly "loving creator" left the back door of the garden open to an supposedly evil being he created "the serpent". Guess their daddy had better things to do while his new innocent children were told "don't do that!"...then, he exited stage left, while the evil serpent entered stage right.

Annnnd....we now have the mess we see on planet earth. All because our loving creator set us up from the beginning (ahem...at least the first two). Oh, and we're all paying for it apparently, with death, diseases, addictions, murders, evil, demons plaguing mankind, and some nasty being called "satan" that seems to have the freewill to roam and devour us all.

Oh, and we're to blame for all that, while simultaneously are supposed to be grateful that god doesn't just wipe us all out. He also (though setting all this in motion in the first place), sent his only son here to die in our place. You know....cause we're all such screw ups.