Why is it wrong for Russia to try and influence U.S. Elections?

originally posted by: Tman2135
Don't think for a second we aren't trying to infiltrate other countries at all times, we are no better or more in the right on this.

Agreed...and honestly, we're probably much worse than most countries because we have the largest budgets and (usually) best tech in order to do it.

One of the key points throughout this debate is the lack of preparedness, and that is exemplified by the comedy of errors that has been Podesta and HRC's carelessness when it comes to security.

The other problem is that we are being told/programmed to look at the messenger rather than the message. The "message" speaks to very deep and very dark issues at play in the Political Establishment in the US government.

From my point of view, almost no price is too high to bring that to light and remove it once and for all. If the Russians did do it, then we owe them a debt of sincere gratitude (I still don't think they had anything to do with it though).

I agree on both accounts above, but I do not believe for a second that, in the long run, it's going to remove the deep, dark issues from the political establishment or the government. In reality, it's just going to teach these people that they need to secure their servers and information better--they'll go through greater lengths to keep it out of reach.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neoholographic

Does the phrase "invasion of sovereignty" mean anything to you?

And as pointed out, we "invaded Israel's sovereingty" to influence their elections. What goes around comes around.

Now if you want to discuss this issue, we can talk abiout ways to harden vital US systems like infrastructure and our govenment systems (military and the like).

But as for the DNC, they learned a valuable lesson about why cyber security is important.,

There`s no proof that the Russians hacked the DNC, the website that published the leaked e-mails says they didn`t get them from the Russians.

I believe the website that published the leaks and has nothing to gain by lying about where they got the e-mails from more than I believe Obama( who has flip flopped on this issue) and the unproven claims that the Russians did it.

That whole Iraq WMD fiasco is still fresh in my mind, fool me once....

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because you mentioned sovereignty and boarder control. Considering it was supposedly Hillary's team that supposedly got hacked, supposedly by Russia then I think it's very relevant to this conversation.

Read my post again and take in what I'm saying. What if the leak was intentional by the Hillary team so they could pin a hacking charge on Russia to escalate tensions between the two countries?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Well it means nothing if you are one of those people who don't care about borders and national sovereignty, but otherwise it should be a huge slap in the face of anyone who dares to call themselves "American".

My personal opinion is that it's folk like you that truly care nothing for sovereignty. You swallow lies whole and care nothing for truth if it doesn't suit your agenda or "squirelly" politics. Soros and his ilk have mesmerized you.

On the other hand, many of us that do actually care about sovereignty know that we have a much bigger problem in that arena right here in the halls of power.

The hypocrisy is strong when one refuses to address the plight of the children and families of the world in destabilized and war-torn nations for political poppycock instead of actually doing something and demanding accountability at home.

Actually I have to agree with you in principle about Russia trying to influence our elections. Since the SCOTUS basically agreed with the tenant that Corporations are people and contribute to political campaigns like an individual, the system can/has/is corrupted by gobs of money for influence. However, the hacking part is my objection

If someone thinks that Russia should not try to protect their interests in regards to the US, can they also explain AIPAC which is lets face it almost a branch of the Israeli government?

If you really want to fight influence its pretty easy:

1) Strict limits on how much a candidate can raise for a given office
2) Strict Term limits, two terms max on any office and a cumulative total maximum for national office, Including cabinet positions.
3) make an example out of them penalties for influence and corruption

This is what it feels like to start losing a grip on being the worlds largest super power.
Whether we like it or not, we don't have the smartest people working for our government anymore. We still have the largest and most advanced military, but at what cost? Our nation is 20 trillion in debt and losing ground on the world market. WooHoo for new jets though!
The last 8 years have been a joke with our foreign relations. The last 8 years have been a joke with our domestic relations.

Yes, it's illegal to hack anything not yours in this country. If Russia is proven to be at the head, sure, lets start WW3 (sarcasm).
There is nothing to be done. Most of us on ATS know it's almost impossible to catch a hacker who has done nothing more than run a brute force on an email account. Especially when some shmuck at the DNC's password is "iamgod123" or "password".

We will have to learn to play second fiddle in the world until the next war. Which shouldn't be far away.

I think Mossad did it.

If I had a list of people who tried to influence the election in favor of Clinton, it would include the entire GOP establishment, the mainstream media, every comedian, celebrity and newspaper in the western hemisphere and Saudi Arabia who dumped millions upon millions of dollars into her campaign.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neoholographic

Does the phrase "invasion of sovereignty" mean anything to you?

Does it mean anything to you? The US do that sh#t all the time... Seriously, what's your point?

Exactly,

What's also crazy is Trump is supposed to be the one that shouldn't be trusted with nuclear codes, but he's the only one that's being cautious.

Trump is saying let's work with Russia to take out ISIS but warmongers like McCain and Graham along with the newly minted Democrat Cold Warriors want to start WW3 with Russia over the DNC?

The moral of the story :

When we interfere with another country's elections or topple a 'regime' to bring the people 'freedom', its all gravy.

When we finally got a taste of our own medicine, we dont like it at all.

Ok so i must say that you are a lunatic fist off and second I would be very upset to hear that opposite happened. Yes it is very upsetting to hear that there is a chance the what you claimed has happened. a reply to: neoholographic

a reply to: RiptKeys

I still think we have some very smart people in this country, but the problem is that we verifiably do have a political elite and THEY aren't those people and they are busy making sure the system runs so that the truly smart people never have a chance. When elite no longer includes the true defintion of elite, and more closely resembles aristocrat and the aristocrats are busy rigging the system to make sure the serfs to kept too ignorant to know any better, it IS a recipe for prolonged mediocrity ... but not because we don't have the smart poeple.

And I haven't seen them all leaving en masse yet.

Please think before you post BRUHa reply to: Allaroundyou

a reply to: SlapMonkey

O.k., I read the material at the link.

Here's where I get lost.
The DNC was hacked, back in April sometime, by ..........someone, who apparently lurked about and stole emails?
Russians, or Insane Greek Fishermen, it was a hack job of the DNC.

Then, the emails were made public by Assange..........and that might have acted as a smear on Podesta or Clinton and IN THAT WAY influenced some voters. But................Assange has stated repeatedly that the emails didn't come from the Russians, which kind of makes sense if you think about it because if your a spy, you really don't want your cover blown.

Well, o.k., it would be "wrong" for the Russians to hack the DNC. Just as it would be wrong for the US to hack the Kremlin..........which I'm quite sure they have.

But here's the deal....................any government can "influence" the election by leaking its preferences. But a "Hack" of an "election" would be the hacking of the actual voting machines.

I don't see what the big deal is; obviously the DNC needs to get a bit more tech savy.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well if Israel wants to say something about that, then they certainly are allowed to. But I'm not going to forgive another country's transgressions against us just because the US has meddled in other countries' politics.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Typical. Any way to direct the conversation to point to Hillary Clinton. *eyeroll*

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: neoholographic

Does the phrase "invasion of sovereignty" mean anything to you?

Does it mean anything to you? The US do that sh#t all the time... Seriously, what's your point?

Exactly,

What's also crazy is Trump is supposed to be the one that shouldn't be trusted with nuclear codes, but he's the only one that's being cautious.

Trump is saying let's work with Russia to take out ISIS but warmongers like McCain and Graham along with the newly minted Democrat Cold Warriors want to start WW3 with Russia over the DNC?

Distract, distract, distract. The old guard is changing. A rogue billionaire just beat them at their own game and is surrounding himself with smart business people and no-nonsense military personnel as opposed to the typical career politicians.

Once he takes office all bets are off and the new administration has a lot of promises to keep. I sincerely hope there are a lot of pink slips and indictments handed out on the 21st.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Well if Israel wants to say something about that, then they certainly are allowed to. But I'm not going to forgive another country's transgressions against us just because the US has meddled in other countries' politics.

That didn't feel hypocritical at all for you to say did it? Wow.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Typical. Any way to direct the conversation to point to Hillary Clinton. *eyeroll*

Not at all. You're comment about sovereignty and boarders triggered me.