Untaught History- Christians forced entire nations to convert at the point of a sword

originally posted by: infolurker
Oh, you mean the Roman Catholic Church. You should change your title to "Church Of Rome" or better yet Vatican forced entire nations to convert at the point of a sword, and killed about 50 million Christians who refused to bow to the Pope's blasphemies.

That was Christianity for a long period of time, except for some of the Gnostics.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: infolurker

Jesus Christ said "I am the truth the light and the way no man comes to the Father but through me"

John 19:30 also says Jesus last words on the cross were "It is finished."; Luke 23:46 says Jesus last words were "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit";Matt 27:46-50 says Jesus last words were "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

So the Gospels are hearsay that sometimes contradict themselves, not a verbatim account of Jesus words. The Gospel of John perhaps written by someone from a more priestly cast was obviosly trying to instill the fear of hell into anyone ignoring his or her beliefs. Which is absurd if you believe we all are GODs children.

originally posted by: Dan00
a reply to: mysterioustranger

Right?

Why does no one call the Spaniards on the floor for that #?

It's like, "Why did you do this to us, White-People?", and I'm like, "I dunno, ask a Spaniard".

So weird.

There are at least 3 cities in Latin America that are named Santiago. ...Cali, Colombia is actually "Santiago de Cali." There are probably more....

Point is...Santiago comes from the hebrew name Jacob...

So it might be more accurate to blame the Jews

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix
a reply to: Raggedyman

The True Church is in Golgotha.

If you think so

a reply to: Humbaba

In the early days of Christianity in Europe, some of those pagans weren't exactly the friendliest of sorts, either.

How do you think many of the earliest of martyrs came about?

a reply to: seagull

one could question just what business the catholic priest had being in pagan lands?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Remember people were largely uneducated upto about say 1500 ad, couldn't read, so the clergy told people what to do and think

Then, as ever, there were ways of finding the truth of the matter. For those that couldn't read, not as many as might be thought I'd wager, there were other ways of getting news. Minstrels. Wandering tinkers. ...and others, all carried the news and latest happenings around Europe.

Just out of curiosity, how do you define uneducated? I'm very curious.

The clergy, powers of the church lied to the people and manipulated them

...and? What else is new? You don't think those "uneducated" people weren't aware of this? Really?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Ooops.



Shame on you for pointing that out!!

a reply to: dawnstar

Same thing pagan travelers did, I suppose. Trying to get from one point to another? Maybe they were rude to the wrong chieftain?

How the devil am I supposed to know? I take the church accounts of their martyrdom with more than a slight grain of salt...

The fact is that somehow they were killed/murdered/executed...by pagans--for some slight.

...and was that martyr'ed Christian even actually a priest? Or was he, or she, called that for the purposes of the Church?? I've often wondered that...

a reply to: ketsuko

I know that. Have I anywhere, at all, ever said Islam was "great"?

The Crusades and the "holy wars" before and after were brutal, bloody affairs that most today would find unfathomable. Blood fetlock deep on their horses was not meant metaphorically...it was quite literal.

I am well acquainted with the history of the time period.

How many of the "few minority religions" in the Middle East owe at least part of their decline not just to Islam, but to Christianity, as well.

Roman Catholicism's history is fully as bloody as Islams.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: ketsuko

Roman Catholicism's history is fully as bloody as Islams.

Yes it is.

But there is one difference between Catholicism and Islam here and now in 2017;

Catholicism has ended the conquest of nations. The crimes against humanity that this thread speaks of are in the past. I'm not excusing them, but the church has had a reformation that brought these things to an end. In the West, Christianity has the correct balance of power ie there are zero purist Christian states. *Edit: okay, the Vatican is technically a state, but it is so tiny and has so few citizens it does not really matter* Our governments are secular and religion and state maintain a (sometimes admittedly blurry) degree of separation.

Islam on the other hand is still doing the same murderous thing that this thread bemoans, right here, right now. And that makes it the bigger threat for us alive today.

a reply to: CB328

You weren't paying attention then.

...and if you weren't taught this in school isn't it on you for not learning it, at some point prior to this? The information has been out there to be had for, literally, centuries.

a reply to: glend

None of those are Christs last words...

a reply to: markosity1973

If I haven't made it clear before, not just in this thread either, allow me to attempt to do so now.

I have very little use for any of the organized religions of the world today. Too busy following dogma and the rules to be concerned with the "flock".

When, by the way, did Christians become a flock that needed a shepherd? When did it become a crime to question Church doctrine--punishable be various means, up to and including rather horrific deaths.

Todays Roman Catholic church is just as concerned about maintaining its hegemonic influence as it's ever been. Methods may change, but the intent remains the same. Christians are sheep that must be lead, with the priests as the leaders. Not teachers that show the way, but as leaders telling which way is correct. A subtle but important difference.

Radical Islam is a danger, you say? Elements of it certainly are. Rather hard to refute that. But the danger of the RC church is no less real for being less overtly blood thirsty.

Actually if you read the book of Revelation you would know that it was prophesied that Christendom would get blood on her hands and be called to account for it by God because they did it in his name.

Interestingly more modern Christianity that was apart from Catholicism going from the 1800's forward started to finally get it right understanding you can't proselytize with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other.

The Catholics and Protestants before this period seemed to have hard time having a balanced perspective of this command.
Educate and let people choose for themselves.

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus Christ, 33 AD

Part of the problem is they thought by forcing them they were saving their eternal soul from hell and damnation, which is very wrong.
How many people have lived and died without ever hearing about Jesus and not even getting a chance to reject or accept the faith.
Well since there is no "Hell" per say, their whole ideology was fundamentally flawed from the very start.
Their motivation for doing it was based on a lie taught by the church to create fear and control.

Of coarse Satan being brilliantly evil sabotaged the one way to serve God, but that doesn't change the truth of reality, millions of Christians are doing it right in 2017.

a reply to: infolurker

It wasnt just the Catholics, this is what modern "Christians" (even though Catholics are Christian as well). The Protestant churches of England and America were just as in forceful conversion as the Catholics of Europe.

And everything that happened prior to the reformation can't really be broken down into the "catholic" church, there was no "catholic" church, there was only "the" church.

All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholic, but it doesn't matter because all parties involved in the church were involved in the forceful spread of religion.

The Catholics don't get all the blame though

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: markosity1973

When, by the way, did Christians become a flock that needed a shepherd? When did it become a crime to question Church doctrine--punishable be various means, up to and including rather horrific deaths.

That started with the apostles when they started arguing who would be Christ's successor and he appointed Peter. The OT of the bible tells a very interesting story of a struggle between God and the people of Israel over having a King. God did not want them to have one, but they kept nagging and so he eventually gave in according to the story.

The psychology of religion partially falls to the old people are sheep and sheep follow the leader philosophy.

Todays Roman Catholic church is just as concerned about maintaining its hegemonic influence as it's ever been. Methods may change, but the intent remains the same. Christians are sheep that must be lead, with the priests as the leaders. Not teachers that show the way, but as leaders telling which way is correct. A subtle but important difference.

This is true, but it is also extremely true that the Church is majorly faltering and struggling to find it's place in the world of today. People are abandoning religion altogether in their droves because they do not want to be told what to think and believe any more. You know this, as you said it in the opening statement of this very post.

There is also much dissent from within, the church outwardly purveys the image of "Steadfast and unchanging in a modern world of uncertainty' but peek behind the curtain and you will soon realise that the 'good' clergy knows that Christianity is losing the hearts and minds of the people because it is actually viewed as "Outdated and controlling"

Radical Islam is a danger, you say? Elements of it certainly are. Rather hard to refute that. But the danger of the RC church is no less real for being less overtly blood thirsty.

Speaking as someone who very nearly became a priest here - long story as to why not, I disagree with you. The church is severely weakened from within. It is crumbling, Satan walks the halls of the vatican (There was a direct drive from the KGB during the Soviet years to infiltrate Rome and it was largely successful, not that anyone will admit it)

The Pope very recently spoke in favour of all the refugees coming to Europe, in spite of the atrocities being committed to Chrisitans in Syria, including the murder of several priests. Clearly he does not understand the very real and true danger of ISIS operatives coming in with them.

This is more akin to Nero playing is fiddle while Rome burns than a dangerous and active organisation hellbent on converting the world at the tip of a sword.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Saint Micheal would disagree...

Wow.. how sheltered are you? This is news to you? Everyone knows this.. come on.

I don't know how you managed to grow up without hearing about this until just now. Every damned school in the world teaches how westerners colonized and brutalized foreign peoples throughout the world. You must have known this, what kind of education did you have? And you must have known that these Europeans were Christians..

This has basically been the Christian creed for almost 2000 years, everyone knows this about Christianity. This is Christianity 101, this is history 101, this is common knowledge 101.. Geez.