Who's Right? Obama? Netanyahu?

originally posted by: loNeNLI

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: loNeNLI

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Syphone

I believe in Israel and the point that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where people can be free. The problem is that Palestinians are Empirical and have ties to the land which are religious for them. The Israelis who are Rational, don't see it this way and use very Western modes of thought when approaching this issue.

Are we talking about the west or the Middle East? If Israelis love so much to be western, then why they don't just pack their bag and go to the west?

Israel was established as a forward base for the west on the eastern mediterranean, close to the oil. the whole religious holyland thing is a ruse.

..i understand you say that as 'logical option'
but the truth is ten times more Devious.

What truth is that?

..the Mimicking of 'gods chosen people' by Canaan

Then who are the real chosen people?

a reply to: neo96

The US has spent a great deal of time telling other countries what to do over the past 8 years. It's severely damaged very important relationships with great powers like Russia and China. Not good.

originally posted by: loNeNLI

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: loNeNLI

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: Syphone

I believe in Israel and the point that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East where people can be free. The problem is that Palestinians are Empirical and have ties to the land which are religious for them. The Israelis who are Rational, don't see it this way and use very Western modes of thought when approaching this issue.

Are we talking about the west or the Middle East? If Israelis love so much to be western, then why they don't just pack their bag and go to the west?

Israel was established as a forward base for the west on the eastern mediterranean, close to the oil. the whole religious holyland thing is a ruse.

..i understand you say that as 'logical option'
but the truth is ten times more Devious.

What truth is that?

..the Mimicking of 'gods chosen people' by Canaan

What?

Are you saying the Palestinians of today are decended from the Canaan Tribe?

Because the Bible (albeit a poor historical source) says that the Israelites genocided the entire tribe.

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Hazardous1408
I say that you're giving "God's chosen" on "God given land" a lot of leeway in that "rationalist" label you've applied to them.

No kidding, religion dominates Israel and I'm sure makes them feel superior.

Then why would these "Occupiers" be going against their Holy book?

www.nkusa.org...

www.nkusa.org...

www.truetorahjews.org...

It was The Creator who took their homeland and it is The Creator who MUST restore it... That is like a Chris†ian™ who types about things wearing Lycra AND Polyester all the while their T-Bone is broiling (How many rules are broken here so far?... )

"In for a dime .10¢, In for a dollar $1.00..." Ancient Jewish adage...

Shalom

Each passing message makes me lose even more hope for the members of ATS. My God, this place sometimes.

Israel is, and WAS the home of the Jewish people.
The Palestinian people do NOT want peace with Israel and they never have - would you allow someone to live with you who is continually trying to stab you?
The words of the PLO CONTINUOUSLY betray their true intentions.

Zuheir Muhsin - “There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.” This highlights the problem perfectly. The west is so saturated in liberal absurdity that they ignore political and moral reality.

The only people who can point to a history centered in Palestine is the Jewish people. Although the area spent some time under the hegemony of Arab conquerors, its condition under Arab rule was as described by the British Palestine Royal Commission Report of 1937: “In economics as in politics Palestine lay outside the main stream of the world's life. In the realm of thought, in science or in letters, it made no contribution to modem civilization.”

In fact the first people to call themselves 'palestinians' were Jewish! The Arab populace at the time did not have a 'palestianian' identity, they didn't contribute anything.

There was no Arab entity called Palestine to stake a claim against Israel in 1948, nor in 1967. The territory of today’s Palestine Authority was consigned to the PLO by Israel in hopes that if Israel cooperated in the fantasy of a separate Palestinian Arab nation, that nation would come into being as a responsible one.

well,Israel has without a doubt put the land to better use than those other people have.do the palistinians even have any infrastructure,any farms,any industry or factories, besides bomb making factories?

There is no shortage of land in the world and they both want the same land so why not let the people who will put the land to better use have it? and the other people can go find some land somewhere else to do with as they wish.

I think they are both wrong.


The jews are there now, they are not going and most just want to live in peace.

The Palestinians are there and not moving either.

Let the Palestinians have there own state and be done with it.

a reply to: lostbook

Screw Netanyahu and the horse he rode in on!!!

Obama and the other UN nations who voted against the Israeli settlements are right as rain.

a reply to: crazyewok

That's what everyone's been saying for years.

Unfortunately they can't come to agreement.

a reply to: crazyewok

yeah, one of those other big muslim countries should donate some land for the palistinians to move to and set up their own state,but they won`t because they don`t want the palistinians around them either.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: crazyewok

yeah, one of those other big muslim countries should donate some land for the palistinians to move to and set up their own state,but they won`t because they don`t want the palistinians around them either.

Why should the Palestinians move somewhere else?

And please don't say "because God promised that land to his beloved Jews."

a reply to: Tardacus

Tell me this, who was occupying that land at the end of WWII and before the Jewish state of Israel was created?

a reply to: Flatfish

And before that?

And then before that?


That argument wont work. The fact is RIGHT at the start the 'Palestinians' were offered the same things they're offered now - they refused outright to communicate with the 'Jewish scum'. Revisionist history at its' finest this.

a reply to: crazyewok

The Palestinians don't want their own state, why don't you people see this THEY WERE OFFERED IT BEFORE AND REFUSED.

They want Israel wiped off the map, really they do....... What's so hard to grasp about this to the people of ATS?

originally posted by: Joneselius

Israel is, and WAS the home of the Jewish people.

That's not correct.

The Jews are at home wherever they are.

There's no place they have to go back to.

Israel is "a peculiar people", not "a place" on earth.

The nation of Israel exists as a collection of scattered groups.

By design, they live among the landed nations, having no particular land with border of their own.

That's because they are God's chosen people.

But, what did God choose them for?

When you figure that out, you'll see, there's no such thing as a "land" called "Israel."

God did not pick the parcel of earth, and give it the name "Israel," but so named "the people."

a reply to: AMPTAH

You wouldn't have to look hard to know what you've just typed isn't true.

"for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever." That's in Genesis......

Israel is a people, it's also a parcel of land that God set ASIDE for his chosen people. It does, and will continue to exist, in fact it's called a burdensome stone for a reason..... I'll continue as again this is the revisionist history we're seeing on ATS lately.

Land was not given to the descendants of Ishmael (one ancestor of the Arab peoples), but rather to the descendants of Isaac.

Genesis 17:18, Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before Thee." But God's answer was, and is, very clear. In Genesis 17:19, God answered Abraham, "No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him." Wow right!? But wait there's more!

"I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And behold, I am with you, and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this LAND; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."

a reply to: Joneselius

Sorry but a 4000 year old scripture is not a proof of ownership.

This is the modern age. Guns and money decide who gets what land.

That is why i accept Israels right to exist as a country.

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: AMPTAH

You wouldn't have to look hard to know what you've just typed isn't true.

"for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever." That's in Genesis......

Israel is a people, it's also a parcel of land that God set ASIDE for his chosen people. It does, and will continue to exist, in fact it's called a burdensome stone for a reason..... I'll continue as again this is the revisionist history we're seeing on ATS lately.

Land was not given to the descendants of Ishmael (one ancestor of the Arab peoples), but rather to the descendants of Isaac.

Genesis 17:18, Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before Thee." But God's answer was, and is, very clear. In Genesis 17:19, God answered Abraham, "No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him." Wow right!? But wait there's more!

"I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And behold, I am with you, and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this LAND; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."

Then why the hell doesn't God send them the weapons and the billions of dollars annually that it takes to hold on to this parcel of land that he endowed them with?

Why has that burden fallen on the people of the U.S.?

How about we withdraw all U.S. foreign aid to Israel and see if God steps in and protects them and their land from it's rightful owners?

I don't owe Israel s#*t and I sure as hell shouldn't have to sacrifice my sons & daughters to fight their battles in the Middle East.

What has Israel ever done for the U.S. other than to commit false flag attacks against us in order to drag us into their battles?

You Bible thumpers need to come up with a better argument than the one presented in your 2000+ yr. old scriptures that were written by someone other than your God.

What a joke!

a reply to: lostbook

I'm for the two state solution as of the 1967 borders.
Could you please summarize in the name of what, the extension of the settlements is acceptable ?

a reply to: Joneselius

Except Genesis never happened, and as far as I'm aware the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God doesn't exist.

How can it be revisionist history if your historical source is the book of Genesis? Talking snakes, evil fruit, 900 year lifespans, really?

If God gave this land to the Israelites then why was he quite content to let other empires rule it for thousands of years until 1948?