King Donald's Anti-Labor Secretary Begrudges "Overprotected" Workers' Breaks

a reply to: dawnstar

I live in Cali and it usually breaks down like this.

If you work "Part Time" which is 5 hours you get a 10 min. paid break about half way through.

If you work "Full Time" which is 8 hours you get two 10 min. breaks and a 30 min. lunch.

Breaks are paid but not lunches.

That is usually how it goes but sometimes there are small changes. Like some will pay 30 min. lunch but if you take an hour it's unpaid. Some will do 15 min. breaks. Stuff like that. You get the idea.

You don't all take it at the same time unless that is possible. Everywhere does it however they can.

Some places you're free to take them whenever you want as long as you take it.

It's not always a rigid thing and there is flexibility. But basically the law is there so that workers aren't taken advantage of by their employer. Because employers have a habit of squeezing their employees as much as possible and they will if there aren't some kind of protections.

That's what the laws are for. They are flexible so that if you work for someone who's a good boss and doesn't take advantage of you, you're able to adjust things around. It's mainly there so someone isn't working 8 hour days without even taking one break the whole time. It causes problems, accidents, people make mistakes stuff like that when they work straight through like that.

originally posted by: MagicCow

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: MagicCow

originally posted by: watchitburn
The OP has become too partisan to function.

So we're going to have a Dept of Labor that isn't going to chase businesses out of the country with ridiculous regulations.

Oh nos, you means we's gonna have to do works at our jobs? That's racist!

Was that your attempt at under the table racism?
Comments like yours are the norm for GLP and stormfront members.

Let me put it in a way you may understand - Let's say CPS was hiring a new director and the person
they hired was a convicted child pedophile. Would you see a fundamental clash in interests?

No idea on the comment, but I took it as trying to portray a low wage worker at a fast food restaurant and it is pretty accurate. The majority of the ones I've ordered from are not well spoken. If you look at the comment as racist because you personally are associating a specific race that you believe speaks like that then it would be your own racial bias you're imparting on the comment.

As far as your example....you're comparing a business tycoon (who wants technological advancement in an industry known for poor performance by its employees, who complain they want more money despite poor performance) to a pedophile? How is that logical? And I would say that comparison is more distasteful than your claiming the other poster is a racist.

I don't care how you took it - I know the root place it came from.
You may not visit those sites or maybe you do - but those comments are the order of the day.
The comment you know damn well where it comes from in that phonetic and you trying to blanket it
shows me more about you than the poster I commented on.
The other poster is racist - defend him as you might it doesn't change. it.


I'm comparing for his sake so his understands what conflict of interest is.
We're trying to bring jobs back to the United States and you're more interested in defending
a "tycoon" that's only interested in automating them.
Go wash your mouth out if you don't like the truth.

There are plenty of sites that will cater to your echo chamber needs.

Wow...the hate and ignorance in your post are unequalled.

So you don't care about my opinion, you name sites yourself and claim that I and others post there, you say "that phonetic" which as I've already pointed out you are the only one so far who seems to think it was directed at a specific race, you call another member a racist, then finish off by telling me to wash my mouth out and go to another site.

That about sum it up?

I've been here since 07...not going anywhere. I haven't defended anyone...simply pointed out that your perception is that of a racist because you immediately were up in arms over what you call "that phonetic".

I do have a couple questions though...

1. Who is the "we" in your "we're trying to bring jobs back to the United States" comment?

2. I was unaware you could outsource fast food jobs, as are the topic of the OP, to other countries...how does that work and please cite any sources for any fast food restaurants that are currently or have ever taken orders outside the US and somehow transported the order to the customer inside the US in a manner in which you would consider fast.

Wow...the hate and ignorance in your post are unequalled.
Sure.

So you don't care about my opinion, you name sites yourself and claim that I and others post there, you say "that phonetic" which as I've already pointed out you are the only one so far who seems to think it was directed at a specific race, you call another member a racist, then finish off by telling me to wash my mouth out and go to another site.
You're defelcting. Damn right I called him racist.

That about sum it up?
Did I hurt your feelings?

I've been here since 07...not going anywhere. I haven't defended anyone...simply pointed out that your perception is that of a racist because you immediately were up in arms over what you call "that phonetic".
Not my problem if you stay or go. Not my problem if you pretend not to know.

I do have a couple questions though...
Shoot.

1. Who is the "we" in your "we're trying to bring jobs back to the United States" comment?
I would imagine i even speak for you when I saw we want jobs back. Do you not?

2. I was unaware you could outsource fast food jobs, as are the topic of the OP, to other countries...how does that work and please cite any sources for any fast food restaurants that are currently or have ever taken orders outside the US and somehow transported the order to the customer inside the US in a manner in which you would consider fast.
Don't play the "but the OP" game now - you veered off and I answered you like i'm answering now.

It's all with love and hugs my friend. I have nothing personal against you. You're the player - I attack the ball.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Vasa Croe

As of right now I don't know if there is a solution. I now some countries have been talking about paying all of their citizens a cost of living stipend. Whether that would actually be viable though remains to be seen.

That said, is it really best to have a Secretary of Labor who clearly cares more about his own bottom line at such a crucial juncture in human development?

All a stipend would do is alert consumer oriented companies to a possible uptick in sales or for them to raise prices. These things go hand in hand which is why jobs disappear. You raise wages, prices of things go up too....hand in hand. It isn't really the CEO's of large companies doing this either. It is usually the board of directors because they are looking out for their investors who dump stocks if a company isn't growing. These things are all related and unless the entire system changes, they will continue this way.

How is this a critical juncture in human development? Sure it's good to have him. He knows what both sides are like at this point in his career. He has the ability, as do we all, to have his mind changed by pressure from the people. Who's to say when he takes office, Trump doesn't push him to take automation away or that he does do something even greater for these low wage workers who can and will be replaced by machines? He isn't the driving force behind this replacement....it has been around and even the OP story references that he was talking about another chain that did it and wasn't his idea.

Regardless of who...it was going to happen and has happened.

a reply to: mOjOm
I never lived in california but I've worked for companies that did dictate when you took your breaks and companies that left it up to you.
from what I've experienced, it seems that they usually give you the freedom to decide yourself if they can. those companies that didn't were usually where they found it more convenient to just shut down the whole line of production than it was to fiddle around trying to find someone to replace you on the line to keep the line running..

but that isn't what is seems that some are trying to portray here when they say that they shouldn't be forced to take unpaid for breaks. the only break I've ever taken that wasn't paid for was the lunch break, and even then, sometimes we would opt not to take that break until well into the afternoon, choosing instead to finish a pain in the arse job before stopping, especially if that job had a huge screen we didn't want to have to let set and dry out and us have to clean.

there's also jobs that are still around, I am sure even in california where the workers don't get breaks... like in any convenience store that only has one person working. they end up taking breaks only if there's a slowdown in customers long enough for them to take them.

this new labor secretary is griping about laws mandating that businesses give their workers breaks throughout their day and some are trying to distort this into meaning that these laws are depriving them of money by forcing them to take unpaid breaks. they aren't considering those workers who are actually doing hard work and probably need those breaks to remain productive throughout the day. and then there are those that are trying to divert our attention from this be bringing in the threat of automation, trying to blame it on those labor laws that are there to protect workers.
if it is cheaper for a company to automate than it is to use human labor, then it's going to automate. it's as simple as that... the more the automation happens, the more the taxes will be diverted to the business sector and the people will be freed from labor. and, well, the gov't will be subsidizing the people while those who are still necessary in running things will be more rewarded for their time and talents is all... but, in order for all that automation to mean anything, there will still be a need for customers to want, and be able to obtain the goods and services that the automation provides. so the idea that we are going to end up with a very large number of people out of work, poor and desperate isn't true. the businesses will go bankrupt first.

originally posted by: WUNK22
Title says it all 'king Donald'. There's no reason to debate with the op. It's biased and not open to discussion. With that said, Gods own highly regarded one is soon to vacate, thank God and amen!

To be fair, I only referred to him as "King Donald" because of the GOP's ridiculous and poorly worded Christmas announcement. I've been perfectly content with Dear Leader, Dear Leader Donald, The Orange Messiah, etc.

See thread here:

Over two millennia ago, a new hope was born into the world, a Savior who would offer the promise of salvation to all mankind. Just as the three wise men did on that night, this Christmas heralds a time to celebrate the good news of a new King. We hope Americans celebrating Christmas today will enjoy a day of festivities and a renewed closeness with family and friends.

a reply to: dawnstar

Right. Basically the laws on breaks aren't there so that employees get paid for nothing or so they can be lazy or some other nonsense. They are there as a bare minimum because without them many employers would abuse their employees. They are there to protect those who have little to no power to bargain a better position for themselves. There are lot's of those positions too.

But this goes beyond just breaks as well. That just shows the mindset of what we're dealing with. If an employer is against breaks for their employees and can work them endlessly until they break then just get another one, that's what they'll do. Our population growth has made finding replacement workers for unskilled labor very easy. If not for certain protections they'd be treated like garbage and discarded without worry. Besides breaks you'd see protections such as safety going out the window too. If an employer doesn't care about their workers because they can simply get a new one when the other breaks down from being overworked you'll see abusive conditions everywhere. Hell, that's how it was for a very long time.

Automation you can't stop. It's just going to happen and it will happen everywhere eventually. All the people who think their safe in their specialized job or creative job are fooling themselves. It's just a matter of time. That issue will have to be addressed and for many who are aware of it are struggling to come up with an idea before it really hits.

Some balance needs to be found. If people don't have jobs they have no money. With no money they can't purchase. No purchases and there is no reason to make products. Everything shuts down. Of course you could give people money from the government though welfare and taxes to keep it going but you'd have to get that money from those who have it and as you know they don't exactly like giving it up. Most people just look at it from their own perspective and don't see the interconnected links between it all.

I have a feeling it's going to get really nasty and bloody at some point. Many people are going to die and suffer because of it too. While a very few live like kings watching the hordes of poor people suffer for it.

So what's the op's next thread topic going to be?Trump left a floatee in the toilet in snub of EPA?

originally posted by: MagicCow


Wow...the hate and ignorance in your post are unequalled.
Sure.

So you don't care about my opinion, you name sites yourself and claim that I and others post there, you say "that phonetic" which as I've already pointed out you are the only one so far who seems to think it was directed at a specific race, you call another member a racist, then finish off by telling me to wash my mouth out and go to another site.
You're defelcting. Damn right I called him racist.

That about sum it up?
Did I hurt your feelings?

I've been here since 07...not going anywhere. I haven't defended anyone...simply pointed out that your perception is that of a racist because you immediately were up in arms over what you call "that phonetic".
Not my problem if you stay or go. Not my problem if you pretend not to know.

I do have a couple questions though...
Shoot.

1. Who is the "we" in your "we're trying to bring jobs back to the United States" comment?
I would imagine i even speak for you when I saw we want jobs back. Do you not?

2. I was unaware you could outsource fast food jobs, as are the topic of the OP, to other countries...how does that work and please cite any sources for any fast food restaurants that are currently or have ever taken orders outside the US and somehow transported the order to the customer inside the US in a manner in which you would consider fast.
Don't play the "but the OP" game now - you veered off and I answered you like i'm answering now.

It's all with love and hugs my friend. I have nothing personal against you. You're the player - I attack the ball.

Deflecting? How so? I answered your extremely biased comments. You are obviously upset because of your own perception of the meaning behind what someone typed. When you go to fast food places in the US, do you expect a highly educated individual, speaking perfect English who gets your order correct every time? Or do you expect either a teenager or someone that is not highly educated who speaks in slang as if they are texting and who you have a 50/50 shot at getting your order correct?

No, you did not hurt my feelings. It is apparent by your anger that yours were hurt though.

As far as my "pretending" to know, I actually had the picture of a trashy white girl living in a tiny, one-light, pass through state border town that tourists use to get to Florida or something along those lines....the types of places that the police force know when holidays happen they park along the tourist routes to snag drivers going 5MPH over their 25MPH town speed limit that was imposed solely for that reason....

And sure, my bias is against places like this that I can't stand the intolerance and stupidity that flows from the majority of the people that live in these areas.

No, you don't speak for me. I have a job that can't be automated or go away. It has me travelling a good bit and I enjoy it. Simply bringing jobs back to the US doesn't fix anything. You think you can take a fast food worker and throw them into manufacturing a car or industrial equipment when they can't remember to take the tomato off a burger? Talk about some massive workers comp claims. Now do the opposite and take a person on a manufacturing line that is still possibly not well educated, but does have QC and KNOWS these things have to be right or his/her job will be in jeopardy and put them on a fast food line....wanna take a bet on which one picks up the job easiest in each "vocation"? Or which one gets the "order" wrong first when they switch?

What about when they bring these jobs back, and that person a the fast food restaurant was used to not having to do much and not caring about performance suddenly decides they want a job at the new car plant. They apply and because of labor laws they get the position. They get something you would think is a menial job that they still aren't happy about because it only pays a little better so they continue with their lackadaisical work "ethic". Say that job is as a Quality Control Inspector which in the US has an average pay of roughly $17/hr. Now the person that couldn't put your order together correctly is in charge of making sure a car is put together correctly...see where I am going with this.

And as far as veering off....I am not finding where I veered off of the topic. I even went back and read all of my posts.

I have nothing personal against anyone on forums....it isn't like I know you. Not sure what ball you are attacking though. A poster saying something you interpreted as racist would seem a silly ball to attack considering how much that attack will matter to the actual OP topic....jobs and automation. Fact is, fast food was bound to go to automation. If you look at jobs, there are plenty that can and will. If you look at human interaction, if you can even call it that anymore, it is less human and more electronic. The pics you see of people sitting at restaurants looking at their phones instead of engaging each other is where we are, and will only get worse with the fact that those doing this are now raising children who are being raised by TV and iPad's.

I'll give you an industry you can't automate and there will be high demand for with the current generation...psychology....and it pays well.

originally posted by: TDawg61
So what's the op's next thread topic going to be?Trump left a floatee in the toilet in snub of EPA?

Why not?
I've seen threads made because Malia took a toke or had a beer!!

"How dare she do this on taxpayer money!!!!"
"The least presidential family ever figures the daughter would be the same!!"

You get where i'm coming from...
Many have had a great 8 years of directing attacks at the current first family.
Everyone gets a turn my friend..
Buckle up princess...

originally posted by: TDawg61
So what's the op's next thread topic going to be?Trump left a floatee in the toilet in snub of EPA?

Ha...now that would be funny...especially if he tweeted the pic....

I think we could use some more "poo" humor these days. It makes my kids all laugh which makes me laugh...laughter makes you happy. I like being happy. So bring on the "poo" threads!!!!!

a reply to: MagicCow

What I don't get is why some of you are such loyalists to Trump that you feel the need to defend him even when nobody is attacking him.

This thread isn't about Trump. It's about the new Sec. of Labor. He may have been chosen by Trump but that really doesn't matter at this point.

It's like you're so afraid and insecure about Trump being exposed you even attempt to defend him even when the topic isn't about him. Why is that???

Why can't you separate issues like this from Trump himself??? Because you're comments actually don't have any meaning when they're about defending Trump when nobody is talking about him.

Deflecting? How so? I answered your extremely biased comments. You are obviously upset because of your own perception of the meaning behind what someone typed. When you go to fast food places in the US, do you expect a highly educated individual, speaking perfect English who gets your order correct every time? Or do you expect either a teenager or someone that is not highly educated who speaks in slang as if they are texting and who you have a 50/50 shot at getting your order correct?
I'm not upset. I understand exactly what the posters comment was meant to reflect.

No, you did not hurt my feelings. It is apparent by your anger that yours were hurt though.
Wanna hug it out?

As far as my "pretending" to know, I actually had the picture of a trashy white girl living in a tiny, one-light, pass through state border town that tourists use to get to Florida or something along those lines....the types of places that the police force know when holidays happen they park along the tourist routes to snag drivers going 5MPH over their 25MPH town speed limit that was imposed solely for that reason....
Sure.

And sure, my bias is against places like this that I can't stand the intolerance and stupidity that flows from the majority of the people that live in these areas.

No, you don't speak for me. I have a job that can't be automated or go away. It has me travelling a good bit and I enjoy it. Simply bringing jobs back to the US doesn't fix anything. You think you can take a fast food worker and throw them into manufacturing a car or industrial equipment when they can't remember to take the tomato off a burger? Talk about some massive workers comp claims. Now do the opposite and take a person on a manufacturing line that is still possibly not well educated, but does have QC and KNOWS these things have to be right or his/her job will be in jeopardy and put them on a fast food line....wanna take a bet on which one picks up the job easiest in each "vocation"? Or which one gets the "order" wrong first when they switch?
I'm in corporate - can't be automated. Still want jobs back for people. Guess we disagree.

What about when they bring these jobs back, and that person a the fast food restaurant was used to not having to do much and not caring about performance suddenly decides they want a job at the new car plant. They apply and because of labor laws they get the position. They get something you would think is a menial job that they still aren't happy about because it only pays a little better so they continue with their lackadaisical work "ethic". Say that job is as a Quality Control Inspector which in the US has an average pay of roughly $17/hr. Now the person that couldn't put your order together correctly is in charge of making sure a car is put together correctly...see where I am going with this.
What makes you think I would want that? That would be a nightmare.

And as far as veering off....I am not finding where I veered off of the topic. I even went back and read all of my posts.
You did when you went against me to defend some nobody racist degenerate that erupted in this volley of posts between us.

I have nothing personal against anyone on forums....it isn't like I know you. Not sure what ball you are attacking though. A poster saying something you interpreted as racist would seem a silly ball to attack considering how much that attack will matter to the actual OP topic....jobs and automation. Fact is, fast food was bound to go to automation. If you look at jobs, there are plenty that can and will. If you look at human interaction, if you can even call it that anymore, it is less human and more electronic. The pics you see of people sitting at restaurants looking at their phones instead of engaging each other is where we are, and will only get worse with the fact that those doing this are now raising children who are being raised by TV and iPad's.
Silly ball indeed - but here we still are. Smart phones have become a cancer to our generation.

I'll give you an industry you can't automate and there will be high demand for with the current generation...psychology....and it pays well.
Let's pray together to our alien fathers that Trump supporters start seeking help.

a reply to: mOjOm

Are you sure you're writing to the right person?

Problem: Paper clips are not worth enough and not enough people are buying them.

Solution: Place a mandatory minimum price on paper clips. Require that all papers using paper clips must be clean so the paper clips don't get dirty. Enforce penalties for anyone who uses paper clips to hold more than 12 pages of paper together. Regulate paper clip storage so that each paper clip must have a minimum amount of dedicated space in a desk drawer. Require that all magnets that could accidentally impact a paper clip be reported, tracked, and stored in government approved anti-magnetic containers. Pass laws to ensure that everyone who uses paper clips must purchase 10% red, 10% blue, 10% green, and 20% brown paper clips. Make sure anyone who uses silver paper clips is laughed at and investigated to ensure comformance.

Result: People stop using paper clips and use staples. In 5 years, all the paper clips in existence are too rusty and corroded to use.

(I know only a select few will get the reference in this metaphor, but what the hey...)

TheRedneck

a reply to: MagicCow

Did I send that to the wrong person???

Sorry.....

My bad......

Please pass that to the nearest Radical Trump Supporter.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

I am the same. The only person I whine to and whines to me is my wife because we have a business together as well as my consulting outside of that.

People don't seem to understand they have a choice. If you don't like your job then do something else. If you have put yourself into a position that you HAVE to work that job then maybe look at yourself to figure out a way to get out of that position. The majority always expect someone else to figure out an answer to their problem.

I hear the cries of school debt, living expenses, having kids, etc...well...these are all things that the person themselves brought on themselves. These are not decision I, or anyone else made them make.

So the only factors governing a person's employment are personal choices? So any old shmuck could do any job if they only wanted to badly enough?

Perhaps that's what Trump should have told voters in Rust Belt states. Those poor decision makers don't seem to understand personal accountability at all! Look at how they responded to his rhetoric on jobs! LOSERS.

While it's certainly possible that most individuals have at least some capacity to improve their lot in life, that sort of microeconomic proposition doesn't scale to a macroeconomic solution for large swaths of people. There are a lot of folks who simply aren't suited for much more than menial labor. There are a finite number of "good jobs" at any moment.

Consider an analogy of ladders. There are only so many ladders with so many rungs. A lot of folks aren't equipped to climb those ladders but even if they were, more ladder climbers doesn't mean more ladders. Labor supply doesn't increase labor demand. In fact, increasing labor supply with the same or decreasing labor demand only makes the labor worth less to those with the demand.

Do you believe if poor people were only better educated and more driven, there'd be no poor people? I doubt you believe that. If to start 2017, we could magically endow every poor person with a four year degree, an intellect to make use of it and a drive to climb those ladders, they'd just climb the existing ladders, displacing everyone else below them with those on the bottom rungs falling right off.

Maybe the answer is more ladders? Small business development is always a fun thing to yammer about at a podium. Unfortunately, small businesses are in competition with one another for a share of a finite market (and a finite share of the money of potential customers).

Maybe the answer is more rungs on existing ladders? This seems to be the tact a few European countries have taken. France lowered the number of hours in their work week. The problem with this is of course that companies can simply pay people less to compensate for the expense, make people work harder, innovate, automate, outsource, offshore, etc. Clearly that's no silver bullet.

A number of countries have some level of work sharing. Germany is commonly cited for their success in this area.

Then there are basic income schemes popular even among some libertarian economists. I don't have a ready answer but I certainly believe it's a discussion that's long long overdue.

I do know that blaming workers is ridiculous and threatening them into accepting lower standards with threats of progress is downright disgusting.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Problem: Paper clips are not worth enough and not enough people are buying them.

Solution: Place a mandatory minimum price on paper clips. Require that all papers using paper clips must be clean so the paper clips don't get dirty. Enforce penalties for anyone who uses paper clips to hold more than 12 pages of paper together. Regulate paper clip storage so that each paper clip must have a minimum amount of dedicated space in a desk drawer. Require that all magnets that could accidentally impact a paper clip be reported, tracked, and stored in government approved anti-magnetic containers. Pass laws to ensure that everyone who uses paper clips must purchase 10% red, 10% blue, 10% green, and 20% brown paper clips. Make sure anyone who uses silver paper clips is laughed at and investigated to ensure comformance.

Result: People stop using paper clips and use staples. In 5 years, all the paper clips in existence are too rusty and corroded to use.

(I know only a select few will get the reference in this metaphor, but what the hey...)

TheRedneck

Can we include serial numbers for these paper clips to ensure
those that purchased them are the ones using them?

originally posted by: MagicCow

I'm not upset. I understand exactly what the posters comment was meant to reflect.
In your biased opinion

Wanna hug it out?
Kinda hard to with all of this technology in between us but I'll give it a try.

Sure.
Hmmmm

I'm in corporate - can't be automated. Still want jobs back for people. Guess we disagree.
I guess that depends on what you do in corporate...

What makes you think I would want that? That would be a nightmare.
What jobs do you propose we bring back to the US that fast food workers would be ideal for then since their jobs are going automated and not outside the US?

You did when you went against me to defend some nobody racist degenerate that erupted in this volley of posts between us.
But that wasn't what you referenced in my post. It was about jobs outside the US which I never talked about until your post. And again, it is your opinion on the racial bias of another poster.

Silly ball indeed - but here we still are. Smart phones have become a cancer to our generation.
Why are you attacking a silly ball then?

Let's pray together to our alien fathers that Trump supporters start seeking help.
Or that non-supporters realize he won and try to start working together instead of trying to divide farther....

a reply to: TheRedneck

Here's some paperclips from your unregulated paperclip market.