The Word was with God, and the Word was A god

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: SethTsaddik

This is because Father is God, Holy Spirit/Mother is God, and Son is God. They all have the same divine essence, but are different personalities. So the Trinity consists of three Co-equal Gods. Technically it is polytheism, but it does not reflect the power hierarchy of classical polytheism. Christ is only in subjection to the Father by choice.

then according to your teaching that the Holy Ghost is a she when al scripture says he is a he, then the Holy Ghost committed lesbianismm and procreated with Mary seeing it was the Holy Ghost that that did come upon her when she conceived.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 1:34 -35 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

me think it goes against nature so he is the Holy Ghost

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

Why not throw up the other verses that infer that Christ I'd part of the trinity

Wellll....crap.
I can't just let this one float by without remark.....

I "throw up" whenever I get overwhelmed by the ignorance of people who dwell on this nonsense.

I don't know why I'm so compelled to argue with you people, but I am. Consider it an effort to educate you all. Before it's too late. Please, PLEASE, get reality through your head.

REINCARNATION is real.

Jesus said so.

There's that high horse again. There is a difference in making a case for your opinion, and just telling people that they are wrong because you are right. It's not your job to educate us like kindergarteners.

So --- I think you meant to send this to Chet or Rags or one of those guys?, or, just save it to your "cloud"?


Because, didn't you earlier tell me that reincarnation is nonsense? (Oh! Yes, you did).

I didn't say "YOU ARE WRONG" (like you did) ....I said

REINCARNATION IS REAL. JESUS SAID SO.

Not that I am one to admire the JW"s I have to admit that they did properly translate John 1 calling the Word divine.

Ton Theos is the Father

The Word is just Theos.

The OP is mentioning a translation with Hotheos that I can't find, but both place more importance on the Father than Logos.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
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a reply to: SethTsaddik This is because Father is God, Holy Spirit/Mother is God, and Son is God. They all have the same divine essence, but are different personalities. So the Trinity consists of three Co-equal Gods. Technically it is polytheism, but it does not reflect the power hierarchy of classical polytheism. Christ is only in subjection to the Father by choice.

I read this and wanted to reply but got caught up in another thought. You say that a trinity exists of polytheistic proportions in the Nazarene theology?

Why then is it taught --

1Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Corinthians 15:27,28 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

That does not teach that the Christ is coequal with the Most High EL.. Nor does it teach that there are two Holy Spirits. The Most High is total Spirit and the only existence of Holy purity. How then can there be another Holy Spirit of gender such as some teach? Does it not say by the apostles and the prophets that The Most High is one and is All in All?
What do you think?

He might disagree with the interpretation of the translation in the OP yet acknowledged it's correct, but that's just being honest.

Not a polytheist. If he is a Christian he obviously doesn't consider himself a polytheist.

a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

The Word was there in the beginning before there was anything but God ... so saying the Word was divine (God) or the Word was God (divine) is really two ways of saying the same message, plus context matters, and it's clear in context the message is the Word is God.

Hey guys....interesting thread. Just popped by to see what's up.

You should ALL watch "The OA", if you have access to it. Absolutely fantastic. I'm on Ep 4 or so.....



HAPPY NEW YEAR PEEPS!

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: SethTsaddik

This is because Father is God, Holy Spirit/Mother is God, and Son is God. They all have the same divine essence, but are different personalities. So the Trinity consists of three Co-equal Gods. Technically it is polytheism, but it does not reflect the power hierarchy of classical polytheism. Christ is only in subjection to the Father by choice.

then according to your teaching that the Holy Ghost is a she when al scripture says he is a he, then the Holy Ghost committed lesbianismm and procreated with Mary seeing it was the Holy Ghost that that did come upon her when she conceived.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Luke 1:34 -35 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

me think it goes against nature so he is the Holy Ghost

WOW!! Are you guys writing a pilot episode for a new tv show? Miniseries?

It would make a really compelling 'reality show', actually. Oh wait. Yeah -- the Duggars. And yeah.....
every televangelist since televisions got here.
Please, please - you guys, PLEASE, resolve to be brave enough to look at the evidence provided by the opposition.

We all know your Bible. You are less acquainted with the metaphysical and more "heady" stuff, and often less acquainted with the Bible and the history of your religion as well.

Anyway ---- I really do recommend watching "The OA" -----

and also, just for fun:

originally posted by: [post=21693829]BELIEVERpriest

Oh. Sorry. Yep! I got confused.....

anyway - it's still you having the conversations.....and me conversing with you.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

The Word was there in the beginning before there was anything but God ... so saying the Word was divine (God) or the Word was God (divine) is really two ways of saying the same message, plus context matters, and it's clear in context the message is the Word is God.

I honestly don't see it that way.

Beresheet or In the Beginning God(Elohim) created...

The Word is an utterance of God.

[Let there be] Light.

Before stars, sun, before everything was created LIGHT was created, the Word.

This light is not visual but contains all the Wisdom of God.

Another interpretation, popular in Wisdom literature, is "With Wisdom God created."

Because I think Beresheet can be Be Resheet and mean with Wisdom as much as in the beginning. Don't quote me but I think that is the reason.

Christ was called the Word, light, and many things, not one of them God.

Which is different than being divine. Angels are divine too.

a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Pretty clear the Word is God.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Keep in mind that first line is narrative...

Jesus never made such a claim

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Pretty clear the Word is God.

It's clear he isn't, is a more accurate statement.

God is God.

His Word, which proceeds FROM God, is a creation and not Creator.

a reply to: Akragon

It's the verse the whole post is about.

a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

When there was only God, the Word existed. How can the word exist when only God existed and not be a part of God?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I was referring to the third verse you just quoted...

this thread is about the first verse.... which by the way, is also narrative

a reply to: Akragon

And they all go together.

Technically Jesus never said any of it, as he did not write any of it. So either it's the word of God or is not, can't pick and choose what pieces you like.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

And they all go together.

Technically Jesus never said any of it, as he did not write any of it. So either it's the word of God or is not, can't pick and choose what pieces you like.

Actually you definitely can, should.

Men did write it, not God.

But that doesn't make it totally worthless, the apostolic Church has good teachings and so do the Gospels, with the exception of Paul, it Holy Scripture to me.

I even like the OT because I don't interpret it literally, I don't believe it's the perfect word of God though.

Is Jesus the Tanakh aka OT?

Because that is called the Word of God and is not God, that's idolatry.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

When there was only God, the Word existed. How can the word exist when only God existed and not be a part of God?

This is just rhetoric, it doesn't mean anything.

The Word proceeded from God and is a creation, not the other way around.

Fancy wording doesn't change simple logic.

a reply to: GnosticusMaximus

So when it says something you don't like it's just rhetoric.

Let me give you a tip, when you have no response, it usually means your position is wrong.

originally posted by: GnosticusMaximus

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Akragon

And they all go together.

Technically Jesus never said any of it, as he did not write any of it. So either it's the word of God or is not, can't pick and choose what pieces you like.

Actually you definitely can, should.

Men did write it, not God.

But that doesn't make it totally worthless, the apostolic Church has good teachings and so do the Gospels, with the exception of Paul, it Holy Scripture to me.

I even like the OT because I don't interpret it literally, I don't believe it's the perfect word of God though.

Is Jesus the Tanakh aka OT?

Because that is called the Word of God and is not God, that's idolatry.

There is nothing Holy about it if you pick and choose the parts you like. Might as well just make up your own at that point.