The Word was with God, and the Word was A god

a reply to: TerriblePhoenix

The Preserved words of God found in the only Holy Bible alone to have all the words of God in it will show you what you want to know. Ask Jesus to show you. That is if you have Jesus and the Holy Ghost abiding in you.

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix

you are in vein shutting your eyes to the problem and selecting random quotes.

Excuse me for interrupting...
the above:

you are in vein has an entirely different meaning than the alternative
you are, in vain. Please clarify. Sorry for the unseemly pedantry. THanks in advance for explaining.

I think you are being a grammar nazi, that is my explanation and I type how I talk, there was no error as I would not have paused and my meaning was clear and would be if spoken.

A pause or command would not change the meaning anyway only the way spoken and read. There would be a pause but it would still be in vein.

I know how to use a command properly. That should be a given for any literate person.

Okay, fair enough. Yes, I was being an 'editor' - just to make sure of your meaning.

BTW, I've starred every one of your posts on here. Just asking for clarification.

a reply to: TerriblePhoenix

you did not answer the question.

which god? You? Men? Scholalrs? Allah?

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Chet, bud.

Why do you think that your Bible is the original, uncompromised, unaltered, unedited first draft of some sort of god-memoir and manifesto?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No I believe it is God breathed and preserved into English as said he would in psalm 12:56,7.

There fore if this is his preserved word (which I am convinced it is) then it is the one we should believe and accept and use for our lives and no other.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

No I believe it is God breathed and preserved into English as said he would in psalm 12:56,7.

So...you think it is a God-memoir and manifesto.....
even if you don't like those terms - they still fit what you believe about your Bible.

You do realize that "English" was a completely foreign tongue at the time...right?
And that the people in 'England' at the time were pagans. You are aware of that, right?




Here's your psalm 56:7-12

7 Because of their wickedness do not let them escape; in your anger, God, bring the nations down. 8 Record my misery; list my tears on your scroll — are they not in your record? 9 Then my enemies will turn back when I call for help. By this I will know that God is for me. 10 In God, whose word I praise, in the LORD, whose word I praise— 11 in God I trust and am not afraid. What can man do to me? 12 I am under vows to you, my God; I will present my thank offerings to you.

This tells you that your Bible is God-breathed?

To me, it just says "I'll believe anything you tell me, because I'm powerless and doomed, and glad you will strike down all of the people who are horrible."

Would you please explain to me how I am wrong about that? Because, that's how I would paraphrase it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am going to disclose here that my 25 year old son is now voluntarily exploring the various paths to "God." He is examining the human ideas of "spirituality."

He's reading the Bhagavad Gita at the same time as he's reading The KJV Bible. He's looking into Crowley's Egyptian Book of Thoth. He was raised with awareness of various forms of spirituality -- Protestant Christianity (the Episcopal kind), Wicca, Buddhism/Zen, and now he is venturing into the exploratory phase. He told me that he's having "real trouble with the notion of 'Jesus as the only way' thing - and the 'works don't matter' thing".

How would you advise me to counsel him? Because I don't believe it either --- so all I can say when he tells me "They say that Jesus is the only way and all you have to do is believe, nothing more. I don't get that!" is, "yeah, that's what they say." Because I don't get it either, but I want to help my son....what should I tell him?
(Not that I will do what you say, just curious about how you would approach it. Be advised that he has been talking to folks like you, and even going to some Baptist-type be-born-again church with a person who is part of his current support-system. I'm fine with that - just like I was fine with his sister checking it out some years ago...)

Four years ago he told me about his interest in Spirituality - at that juncture we discussed Eastern ideas: meditation (which he is now doing), prayer (which he is also now doing), and most of all EDUCATION. He is busy getting up to speed with the options on offer.

I'm not going to tell him he "must believe in Jesus". Because I just don't believe that.
So - what would you tell my grown son if you had his ear? (You don't - but just 'if you did'?)

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
My only Psalm I quoted was Psalm 12:6-7

Psalm12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The verse you quoted above should be kept in context, This one for Israel and about their enemies. Not for Christians today.

Here is your Bibles rendering

7 Because of their wickedness do not let them escape; in your anger, God, bring the nations down. 8 Record my misery; list my tears on your scroll — are they not in your record? 9 Then my enemies will turn back when I call for help. By this I will know that God is for me. 10 In God, whose word I praise, in the LORD, whose word I praise— 11 in God I trust and am not afraid. What can man do to me? 12 I am under vows to you, my God; I will present my thank offerings to you.

Here is he AV rendering of he verses you quoted

Ps 56:7-12 Shall they escape by iniquity? in thine anger cast down the people, O God. Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book? When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me. In God will I praise his word: in the LORD will I praise his word. In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee.

You see they are very different. The Bible you quote does not contain all the verse and changes the meaning of God's words beware and understand things that are different are not the same even if they both say Psalm 56. Only one is the preserved Bible and the only one that has all the verses and words of God in it is the AV plus other identifying marks as the preserved word of God. Of course one must believe that God has declared via his prophet to preserve his words to every generation. And that one must search it out and prove it for themselves as I did.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
I selected and copied this from your post.

psalm 12:56,7.

I "googled" it.

What you saw in my post is what I got as number one on the Search Engine Results Page (SERP).


So....ok. You mistyped. It was a typo. That's fine. I copied it from your post.
It didn't stick the landing when I bounced it back to you (like volleyball, ya know?) (or ping-pong?). Your move.


You still have not told me what you would coach me to say to my son.
That's what I want to hear about ------ I don't want to squabble over cataloging and filing minutiae.....

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO MY SON?
If I put you in a room with him at this very moment and asked you to help him.....imagine it. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM?

a reply to:

BuzzyWigsSo - what would you tell my grown son if you had his ear? (You don't - but just 'if you did'?)

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Rom 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Roms 3:22-25 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
1John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Roms 10:8-11 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

kay, so --- see. That's what he's hearing.
And he says he isn't buying into it.

So - when he tells you he doesn't believe it and insists that he does not believe it and can not believe it ----


THEN WHAT?

Are these just 'crap' preachers he's listening to? NONE OF THEM have convinced him.

What does that mean?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Are these just 'crap' preachers he's listening to? NONE OF THEM have convinced him. What does that mean?

A preacher of righteousness only plants the seed. The Holy Spirit then gathers that which has been sown to the Father

Galatains_6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

As a earthly father your prayers and guidance is your obligation to your son.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix

The Preserved words of God found in the only Holy Bible alone to have all the words of God in it will show you what you want to know. Ask Jesus to show you. That is if you have Jesus and the Holy Ghost abiding in you.

This is how you counter actual facts and the fact being your favorite Bible disagrees with the oldest Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic texts in existence?

That is basically admitting you believe your book is magic.

What about the gap between Maserati and Hebrew texts not having any sons of Israel versions, the fact that you said '' preserved for all time '' and '' Greek was corrupted '' which is an irreconcilable contradiction?

Ignore the facts, make claims about a magic book, what a sad joke.

a reply to: Seede

As a earthly father your prayers and guidance is your obligation to your son.

I'm the mother.

a reply to: TerriblePhoenix


you still don't get it do you?

There is no verifiably accurate Hebrew or Greek copy. You Hebrew copy could be what is incorrect. Now if you beleive God's word that he will preserve it to every generation forever. then you would seek out and search for that one in the Language of this generation (which is English) and once you find it stick to it. To find it it has characteristics that make it different from all other of the 350 plus English Versions out there, and it will be far superior than any Hebrew or Greek copy.

So I could care less if it disagrees with an unverifiable dead Hebrew language copy that may be inaccurate when i hold in my have a book that has all the words of God in it for life and godliness.

The Preserved word of God is not magic or mystical. It is God breathed and inspired when the translators gave themselves tot he Holy Ghost to create and more perfect version for English speaking people.

You see an irreconcilable contradictions for at least 2 reasons. 1) you don't believe the word of God, and 2) you want and seek out contradictions, errors and fallacies because you are not indwelled by Christ or the Holy Ghost. I would further present that by virtue of the first two points you also are in a sinful lifestyle which you seek to justify. And the best way is to unbelief in God's word.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It is called unbelief. Why do you think Israel had to wander in the wilderness for 40 years until those who did not believe the word of God died off.

Look up in the bible all the times the word unbelief and look at the context and what happened to all them that did not believe the word of God.

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: TerriblePhoenix

Israel because that is what God originally said before it was corrupted in the Greek copies to read the sons of God.

Unbelievers have no say I this matter, you'll see.

You have no say in what I have a say in, you see here and now and not later.

Unbeliever is a term for people who don't believe, in this case in God.

Oh but I do. I merely disagree with you.

You are being grandiose if you don't see a difference and an intolerant boob.


This is where you have failed to do your homework, it was not corrupted by the Greeks but the Masorah.

Do some quick research and you will find the community who hid the Dead Sea Scrolls, who had so many similarities with Christianity it is fascinating, left us copies of Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic copies of books and fragments of every book with the exception of Esther, even some now called Apocrypha.

One of the most important finds is that "Sons of God" was used in the first century as that particular verse was found and it agrees with the Greek. And obviously earlier.

So it only stands to reason that the original reading that was the only reading prior to the Masoretic text was the correct one, by date and by a factor of 2 to 1 there is no doubt whatsoever that your "sons of Israel" originated, I believe, in Babylon with the Masorah or wherever else they lived though I am pretty sure Babylon was the center of Jewry and home of the Masorah.

Masoretic= 1000-1200 AD

Greek and Septuagint= 300 B.C.-400AD

Dead Sea Scrolls=300BC-70AD (depending on the text and give or take in each case)

Only one didn't exist BC and it was the Masoretic

I see you don't study history or the findings of scholars based on the finding of the world's oldest Biblical fragments and books, some whole and near whole.

How interested could you honestly be in knowledge and information about your religion if you don't know such a thing and make conclusions without the most important facts?

Not much. You follow the tradition of Babylon.

ATTN: Chester John

Is this what I don't get, or is this what YOU don't get?

Because you respond to verifiable facts with calling a book magic.

And I don't get it?

Are you that far gone?

Is that you being deliberately ignorant of the facts because they are proof of the unpreseved nature of your favorite Bible.?

Or are you really that arrogant about ignoring logic, reason, facts and proof?

I'm suddenly wondering how many people in the world can't read English. I think it's vastly underestimated by some. I remember in Italy running into quite a few people whose english was to such an extent that I somewhat doubt they could read a complicated book such as the bible and understand what it's teaching. Especially with those teachers whispering in their ears how they should interpret or understand it or even without (like they would turn of the TV and not already been influenced by what's going around in society when they get to that point of reading the bible for themselves in a language they hardly understand). Just a hpothetical scenario, not implying anyone said that it's somehow a requirement or a good or preferred way to getting to know God or anything.

One can always translate a translation such as the KJV or AV into another language (if someone wants to make a link between my comment and the comment that triggered my curiosity). I'm guessing many of those favoring the AV don't see an issue with that. Cause it's always a nice response to use if someone brings it up as an issue regarding a certain subject of reliability.

On the wikipedia page for bible translations in my country the King James Version (or AV) was not listed among the Dutch translations. My country is mostly protestant Trinitarian (at least the North). I don't think they use the AV. There are also baptist churches and Roman Catholic churches more in the South. Im not sure if a Dutch translation even exists for the KJV, but I would think someone made one based on the KJV at least. Just named it differently.

I think the issue of not being able to read English and understand what they're reading outside of Great Britain (or was it still called England back then?) would have been much worse for someone in my country in the early 17th century though. If one wanted to learn the truth about God from the KJV or AV that is. And we're right next door! Those poor Chinese, 1 billion of them and they're still overlooked in all our considerations... (well, I thought about them at least).

Revelation 7:9,10 (NW):

After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,* [*: Or “languages.”] standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

AV (KJV):

....tongues,...

And there we have another distinction between "God" (Jehovah) and "the Lamb" (Jesus).

originally posted by: TerriblePhoenix
a reply to: ChesterJohn

You just said God promised to preserve his word for EVERY generation.

Contradicting yourself because until 1200 AD roughly no Bible existed saying "sons of Israel" AND you said the Septuagint was corrupted.

Corrupted or preserved for every generation can't co exist so which is it?

And do you deny God preserved the DSS?

Maybe he wanted to settle the issue.

You admitted to corruption of the Septuagint and thus admitted non preservation for all time.

Have you ever heard of logic or rationality?

I think not.

Because Jesus died in 33 AD roughly, the KJV is 1611.

Do the math Chester, 1611-33= 1551 years without the "Authorized" (By a degenerate King) version.

You are joking right?


Further, the Sons of God were 70 in #, one per nation like the Bible says there were, following Cannanite El(God) and Asherah (wife of God) mythology.

The sons of Israel were 12.

We know there were more than 12 nations because the Bible says so.

Therefore sons of Israel makes no sense.

Or is this what '' I'', don't get.

Because I am using real physically existing evidence to make points you don't even understand the implications of preferring to ignore it and place your trust in a translation that is factually different from the original oldest copies in existence that you call corrupted and restored by the Masorah in 1200 AD that is the source of the KJV's OT.

Now having admitted previously to corruption.

And ''preserved for all time.''

I sit here flabbergasted at your refusal to logically examine the evidence and your attempts to avoid all my valid points and questions by responding with opinions and attempts to convince yourself there is something I don't get.

When you don't understand practically anything?

Who or what are you?

originally posted by: whereislogic
I'm suddenly wondering how many people in the world can't read English. I think it's vastly overestimated by some. I remember in Italy running into quite a few people whose english was to such an extent that I somewhat doubt they could read a complicated book such as the bible and understand what it's teaching. Especially with those teachers whispering in their ears how they should interpret or understand it or even without (like they would turn of the TV and not already been influenced by what's going around in society when they get to that point of reading the bible for themselves in a language they hardly understand). Just a hpothetical scenario, not implying anyone said that it's somehow a requirement or a good or preferred way to getting to know God or anything.

Which would make Chester John's '' lone preserved word of God '' KJV and by theology SALVATION, unavailable to anyone who doesn't speak English.

Including Messianic Jews, Ethiopians, Arab Christians and Spanish speaking...anyone who doesn't use the KJV.

Which I have never heard a Christian express, even the borderline crowd of KJV only nutters won't say other Bibles are bad

Fringe Christianity is what that is. A denial of the ability of humans to discover new things about the Bible since 1611 is akin to stupidity, as harsh as that is a thing to say it is a stupid concept, though I am not calling anyone stupid for entertaining it the concept is sheer stupidity since we have BC Tanakh scrolls and fragments found in the 1940's.

And they are usually in agreement with the Septuagint and Greek texts, not the Masoretic.

A second millennium composition that replaced ''God'' with Israel because Yahoo was originally a Son of El and it shows in accurate translations of Dt. 32.

But the Sons of God were 70 in number, one per nation, also 70 according to the Bible.

Sow how could 70 nations be divided among 12 Israelite, or millions, when each nation had one Watcher/God /Son of God?

Yet here sits this man claiming two contradictory things, preserved forever, corrupted in Greek, when that doesn't make sense AND we have Proof it wasn't.

So glad to be me at times like this, though I honestly feel bad for Chester he is responsible for himself and will have to answer to God/Allah/Tontheos or God Most High someday and I hope by then he learns the value of scholarship and that God has other concerns than one version of one book of one and two religions, and is not a Christian God but God of the Universe and the God atop all pantheons, polytheistic or monotheistic with angels it is God Most High of all religions in whatever form or language.

The world is bigger and sometimes better than Christianity, God forsaking people for being born into a culture that antedates Christianity by thousands or hundreds of years, because they were not KJV only Christians.

This is why Christianity is popular to claim but not practice. It practices discrimination against everything non Christian done by even non Christians who shouldn't be held to a standard they don't believe is right.

They protest with signs saying '' God hates f@9$'' and go home feeling holy. Like they did God's work, he needs their assistance and having nothing better to do like mind their business.

Although plenty of Christian Churches openly accept homosexuals because they are really disciples of Jesus and turn away no one.

I think that the dead dialect is what is allowing his irrational views to take place because he can't understand a word of the Bible and has no concept of dignity.

Where I will give you respect is Pauline or not you have a kind personality, other things to such as not trying to b.s. about Paul when you don't have the explanation, you just conceded you couldn't answer and I respect that, however you reconcile it is your business and harmful to nobody.

Chester will provide any worthless response and try and paint someone as lacking in comprehension when they are far more educated Biblically than he and does all of Christianity a disservice by even trying to appear like he follows Christian when he doesn't, the Gospels are OT to him virtually and don't apply to him at all.

If you don't at least try and model your life on the teachings of Jesus and fulfill them, rely wholly on the proffession of faith in sacrificial atonement, Paul's idea, you are a Paulinist, using the name Christian to fake people out, but following Paul first.