My brother said... (about dress code and rape)

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

So you're saying you've seen rapists blame victims for wearing the wrong clothes, wow really? Ya don't say. Then it must be true...

Except not.

This is just a rapists attempt to pass on responsibility to the victim.

Double post.

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

So you're saying you've seen rapists blame victims for wearing the wrong clothes, wow really? Ya don't say. Then it must be true...

Except not.

This is just a rapists attempt to pass on responsibility to the victim.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Use your brain, and stop twisting things around.

It's not a cop out. They are guilty. They bear sole responsibilty. Nobody in prison ever says, "Oh, poor rapist. The girl was dressed to tease. No wonder you raped her. Let's throw a spread together." No, in prison rapists tend to learn real quick not to justify it like that. They get shut up real quick. There is zero incentive to justify himself on the premise of how attracted he was. NOBODY other than other rapists buys into it, and it's not like there are rapist unions in prison to protect other rapsists. However, a rapist will recount what was going on in his head when he did these things because the general idea is that when he understands why he did what he did, and actively wants to change, he'll start getting better, i.e., he'll stop being a rapist. I'm not so sure I buy into that myself.

Confronting why he did it is a way to own responsibility for his own actions, not blame the victim.

originally posted by: Anaana

I pointed out that some men are psychologically and mentally abnormal, and have problems of this sort.
That is just a fact.

Is it? Could you evidence that "fact" for me, because frankly I don't believe it? And to how many actual rapes does this "fact" apply? And in relation to men who have similar problems but choose not to isolate women and put themselves in a position where they may lose control and rape them?

That is a very, very, very rare proportion of the population that are physically incapable of preventing themselves from penetrating someone without their consent.

Are you actually saying that people who commit rape are NOT psychologically abnormal???
That doing such acts is "normal" psychological behavior for all men????

I'm sorry, but I disagree totally.
I think such acts are the fruit of abnormal minds, and not at all the norm.
(I didn't write "physically incapable", by the way, read again the quote of mine you copied- it talks of mental and psychological abnormalities, not physical)

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: Bluesma


I never asked about anything else. What happened was... you read my little speech about being a victim of a crime and you got triggered and needed to defend your position. The position that I had accidentally attacked by expressing my feelings.

That's what is happening here.

It just seems like your panties were all in a bunch (and still are). If that makes me a victim of your wedgie? Then so be it. Im a victim of your wedgie. It is what it is!

If you could stop putting that illusion of adversary over your perception of me you'd see more clearly (and be less uncomfortable).

Victimhood is an addiction. Someone shoots you up with it against your will, and then- you get hooked on it and go seek it out for years.

But like any addiction, the enablers are more comfortable to deal with than those that say the truth. It is not because it makes you uncomfortable that they don't care about you- quite the opposite.

Ignorance is not innocence, and knowledge is not guilt. We can play dumb , say nothing, in order to avoid accountability, but that never frees us from consequence.

Call me guilty of giving you a wedgie, if you like, but does it feel good to keep yourself a victim of guilty people all the time? This might be an addiction that is not so good for your mental or physical health.

And this?

This is just a rapists attempt to pass on responsibility to the victim.

I think we're going back to the ABC's again.... this is a given. I doubt anyone in this thread even imagined otherwise, or imagined that needed to be pointed out. Being aware of (and alert to) what sorts of twisted illusions an abnormal mind has is not the same as believing those illusions say anything about the objective reality of others.

Yep everyone should be able to dress as they want, women should be allowed to walk around alone at night.

Sadly reality does not work that way. Never will until there is zero sicko's in the world.

Kind of funny how humans will happily put an armory in their home to defend themselves, but won't take simple common sense steps to protect themselves.

Yes it is wrong you cannot wear shorts so skimpy they show your vagina off if you choose to at 2am while drunk. But much better than the alternatives in the real world.

Honestly we're the dumbest animal on the planet. Not the smartest.

Be like me jumping into a lions cage with a rack of beef around my neck and expecting the lion won't eat me because I have the right to be in his cage and unmolested.

This is the problem, you ladies are thinking of what would or should happen around rational intelligent beings.

Rapists, well they aren't that rational. They won't magically think, oh she has rights I better not rape her. I should let her pass alone down this dark alley.......
You're thinking of it from your viewpoint, not theirs. If your logic made sense to criminals, well we'd be living in a happy rape and crime free world.

Sometimes life is just not fair and you have to live with it. Better than not living with it, as in dead and raped in a ditch.

Hope what I am saying makes sense.
But god SJW's, PC and feminists are doing more harm to women than good imho.

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo

But god SJW's, PC and feminists are doing more harm to women than good imho.

Good post ..... Starred for that line alone

a reply to: Bluesma

Alright Bluesma you've got my panties all in a bunch. And this is what it looks like:

I wrote this post to invite discussion and share information, knowledge, and a life experience.

Just because you can't talk about what happened to you...? It doesn't mean we shouldn't get to talk about what happened to us. Just because you've learned to suffer in silence, it doesn't mean everybody else has to. Because despite all your disbelief, sharing a life experience isn't an invitation to be trolled. And we aren't victimizing ourselves every time we talk. And it's also not a malicious attempt to manipulate everyone around us.

I am just excersizing my voice and the more that you want to silence me? The more that I want to talk.

And I know you won't like it.

Not one bit.

Now, I demand that you apologize to me for being so ignorant.

Thank you in advance.

And if you don't? Well that's fine because by now I've picked my own wedgie and I am radically accepting all your crazy and I can't change you or force you to be a considerate and kind person and less rapey. But if you continue to choose ignorance, then this is goodbye.

originally posted by: Bluesma


The way you dress and make yourself appear speaks to others. It tells of what you feel like today, what you are looking for. Why dress extremely provocatively if you are NOT in the mood for sex?


This is a very simple question that men can't help asking. Why put out an image of your intents and emotions that is false?

When young men have dealt with girlfriends who have "tested" them in various ways "I tried to break up with you to see if you would react strongly against that idea", for example- they walk away with the idea that women sometimes say no when they mean yes; or that they do things specifically to provoke him to "be a man" and oppose her.

So you agree with me then, that what you state above is NOT true. That men are wrong to ask "why put out an image of your intents and emotions that is false?" because you and they unless they actually ask, have no idea what the "intents and emotions" of a person are by how they are dressed?

You agree that you are wrong to state and reinforce the idea that by dressing "provocatively" a woman is advertising her availability to have sex and that it is your judgement of how that person is dressing?

To return to your example of Miley Cyrus, why is that you think she "vulnerable" because of the way she chooses to express herself on stage? Why do you think someone is vulnerable just because they may choose to wear fewer clothes than you would? Or because they enjoy dancing or indeed, if they seek attention? What do you consider so wrong in seeking attention?

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo
Yes it is wrong you cannot wear shorts so skimpy they show your vagina off if you choose to at 2am while drunk. But much better than the alternatives in the real world.

But, surely, you appreciate that not all women who are raped are wearing revealing or "sexy" clothes? And that men, women and children are raped in broad daylight too, and in their own homes by someone they know much more frequently than they are by strangers? You also realise that while some rapists, as has been detailed by other posters, are more attracted to victims that dress in a demure manner that seem passive and that by dressing in a more sexually aggressive way they would actually be detering those "types" of rapists, even if they were attracting others who might think that women who wear revealing clothes are "easy"? The thing is, a modest ankle length skirt provides just as easy access as a short, barely there one does, shorts, however, short, take more time, and they give you much better freedom of movement should you have to avoid or evade unwanted attention. High heels may hobble, but kicked off they become a very effective weapon.

But, getting drunk, or drugged, getting seperated from the group or otherwise isolated, that is what puts you at risk, not what you are wearing.

I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me. Sometimes I think, if I hadn’t gone, then this never would’ve happened. But then I realized, it would have happened, just to somebody else.

www.buzzfeed.com...

originally posted by: Bluesma
Yes, once again, I think it would be a good idea for young women to consider dressing in a way that expresses their current mood, feeling, desire and intent, in order to be less of an enigma.

Why are you assuming that they are not and that it is in fact you that is unable to understand what they are saying, and it is instead your assumption that by dressing in that way they are advertising their sexual availability?

And still, what does any of that have to do with rape? If you can accept that a rapist has an abnormal mode of thinking, then why assume that they think in the same way as your male friends do?

originally posted by: geezlouise
I am just excersizing my voice and the more that you want to silence me? The more that I want to talk.

originally posted by: geezlouise
Just because you can't talk about what happened to you...? It doesn't mean we shouldn't get to talk about what happened to us. Just because you've learned to suffer in silence, it doesn't mean everybody else has to. Because despite all your disbelief, sharing a life experience isn't an invitation to be trolled. And we aren't victimizing ourselves every time we talk. And it's also not a malicious attempt to manipulate everyone around us.

I'm really sorry geezlouise, I do not know about your individual case and I have absolutely no comparable experience so would not presume to know what you have gone through, but if it is not rude to ask, why does Bluesma keep saying that "those" rapes are not like yours? If that is an invasive question please feel free to ignore it.

Many thanks.

ETA, just to clarify, I am wondering what you think is implied by them not being like "yours", I am not expecting you to reveal anything that you don't feel the need to...if you know what I mean. Ta.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Is it? Could you evidence that "fact" for me, because frankly I don't believe it? And to how many actual rapes does this "fact" apply? And in relation to men who have similar problems but choose not to isolate women and put themselves in a position where they may lose control and rape them?

Sorry you evaded the question so adeptly I almost missed that you hadn't answered my point. There are very few men that are unable to control themselves once they are aroused. With very few exceptions men are perfectly capable of stopping sex even once penetration has taken place, so even if they are aroused by watching someone dance, they are perfectly capable of not acting upon that arousal. That includes most rapists. To not be able to control themselves under those circumstances would require there to be some kind of organic defect.

Please feel free to attempt to demonstrate otherwise.

What make them think that they can get away with it however, and which is why I find your line of reasoning so dangerously insidious, and one reason why mode of dress may be revelant, is if they are raised in a culture that believes that how a woman dresses is some way an advertisement of their sexual availability.

a reply to: Anaana

I don't even know what "those" rapes even constitutes in Bluesma's labyrinth of a mind.

But if I were to venture a guess, she is saying that there are different kinds of sexual offenders. And it did seem like she was implying that just because clothes didn't have anything to do with my rape, it doesn't mean that clothes isn't a factor in other rapes. But when I asked her if she believed clothes could provoke or prevent rape? She said she doesn't believe that. So that's the labyrinth that Bluesma presents and I refuse to play that game.

I really am glad you are here Anaana, I love you.

For real.

a reply to: AtomicKangaroo

What you are failing to acknowledge is that clothes never has anything to do with rape. Never ever.

If it does, provide evidence.

And if clothes do not provoke or prevent rape, why should we adhere to any kind of stricter dress code? It doesn't make sense.

Thank you in advance for cooperating.

a reply to: Anaana

Ty it's beautiful.

happy New Years!

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: Anaana

I don't even know what "those" rapes even constitutes in Bluesma's labyrinth of a mind.

But if I were to venture a guess, she is saying that there are different kinds of sexual offenders. And it did seem like she was implying that just because clothes didn't have anything to do with my rape, it doesn't mean that clothes isn't a factor in other rapes. But when I asked her if she believed clothes could provoke or prevent rape? She said she doesn't believe that. So that's the labyrinth that Bluesma presents and I refuse to play that game.

I understand. I'm obviously looking at this from a UK perspective. Here law enforcement and support agencies have worked really hard to change perceptions of rape and sexual assault, and that does mean that we are able to have a much more open dialogue here about these issues. In consequence I am deeply shocked to see someone who claims to have been a victim of rape bullying another because they do not approve of how they are dealing with their trauma. Is this something that, in the US, you find you have to deal with a lot? Others dictating to you how you should and should not feel? We all deal with trauma in our own way and find what works for us, for Bluesma to equate how she deals with an event that occurred 45 years ago and tell someone who hasn't even lived that long how they think they should be behaving is totally alarming to me. I suspect that this may be the issue...

There are a number of ideas on why rape culture exists, but there are four that should be mentioned. The sexual objectification of females is the first factor that plays a role in rape culture (Sexual Face of Violence: Rapists on Rape via National Criminal Justice Reference Service). When females are treated merely as objects for sexual pleasure instead of as human beings with personalities, feelings, and opinions they are transformed into any other type of object that can be used without thought. Therefore, people who see women as just objects to have sex with will normalize, excuse, tolerate, and condone rape because in their minds nothing is wrong with it. Misogyny, which is the dislike or hatred of women and girls, is the second contributing factor to rape culture (Huffington Post). This is because people who are misogynist’s will either not care about harm being done to women or will purposely cause harm to women because they dislike them and may choose to use rape as a way to hurt them.

www.dayofthegirl.org...

I suppose once you have accepted your own objectification, it must get more and more difficult to comprehend that not all women view themselves in that way.

originally posted by: geezlouise
I really am glad you are here Anaana, I love you.

For real.

Thanks Honey, I love you too.

originally posted by: geezlouise

I wrote this post to invite discussion and share information, knowledge, and a life experience.

Just because you can't talk about what happened to you...? It doesn't mean we shouldn't get to talk about what happened to us. Just because you've learned to suffer in silence, it doesn't mean everybody else has to.

Your earlier post to me in this thread claimed -

I also noticed that you always, always talk about your life experiences at any chance you get.

Wait, am I over sharing or under sharing, in your judgement? It seems you haven't made up your mind on that.


I am just excersizing my voice and the more that you want to silence me? The more that I want to talk.

And I know you won't like it.

Did I write that, or did you?

Now, I demand that you apologize to me for being so ignorant. Thank you in advance.

No, I don't think I will. I feel compassionate to your panty -bunching (as you call it). But I don't think I am ignorant here. I also will not ask you to apologize for the long list of accusations and characterizations you made of me before I finally decided to confront you with it.
Here's some copy and pastes:

You lack empathy.
you are un-sympathetic of people who are victims of crime. Un-sympathetic, and generally lacking a basic understanding of the underlying psychological impact that crime has.
You are jealous and angry that anyone else might gain pity or sympathy for being a victim of crime

(Add to that the newest ones (crazy, inconsiderate, unkind, ignorant and "rapey")

You apparently felt these were true and it was in my best interest that you made me aware of them. So you did. I am free to agree or not, as are you. I only point them out now to help you out in your labyrinth... you were not an innocent victim here. You decided to judge and characterize an individual on this thread, and that is bound and guaranteed to invite the same thing back to you. That is social interaction "physics" if you will.

Besides, in every thread you create, there is someone who is the rapey bad guy you designate. Always. There's the "I love you"s and the" I hate you, you are an evil person" in them all, and I've already been back on forth on that catagory with you. So next time someone else will be the evil one. I'm not going to take it real personally, and it doesn't upset me at all. It's okay.

I don't think that what I have said to you is terrible. Like I said, it is common, I have been through it myself, and there should be no shame involved. I want to remind you of what you wrote earlier in this thread-

I think that people who seek to retraumatize themselves are actually just trying to overcome that trauma and/or process it and understand it so that they can mentally overcome it... and so, people who are in that victim mode shouldn't be shamed for it as though it were a personal choice. It is not a personal choice. They were put there and now they're trapped and lost in the labyrinth and are just trying to find their way out again.

People who lack compassion let that person continue to be lost and searching and feel no desire at all to help them.
They encourage the confusion, and reinforce the labyrinth walls.
Having been in that vicious cycle, I have some clues for you on getting out. On understanding it, so you can overcome it. I offered those because I care, because I am not lacking in compassion nor empathy.

You are free to reject it, (and it doesn't surprise me) but when you are actually ready to get out of the hell of I love you/hate you, "the world is full of evil people who want to hurt me", you might find these concepts arising bak to you from the depths of your mind.

So, goodbye! For now! You might want to add to the info to remember that even rapists now how well the sympathy cookie works with victims, to get a hug and I love you and trust you. It is unfortunate, but you might want to keep it in mind. Unless you want to relive that in order to understand it better...whatever.

originally posted by: Bluesma
You might want to add to the info to remember that even rapists now how well the sympathy cookie works with victims, to get a hug and I love you and trust you. It is unfortunate, but you might want to keep it in mind.

You just cannot help yourself blaming victims, can you?