Flux Liner Revisited

Along with Zaphod's eternal fascination with all things TR3B ...it never ceases to amaze me how the "workable physics" of such proposed devices/outputs are never discussed.

Having lots of fusion derived electricity on tap or flinging superheavy elements around in circles is great...but how does it make you behave like a UFO/facilitate none mechanical "Antigravity".

Given that we are starting to understand the importance of information horizon interactions, it seems entirely more likely that if any secret advances were going to be made- they would come in the form of altering information horizons due to the vast amounts of MIC money that has been spent on associated areas when R&D'ing optics, surveillance, communications, propulsion or starwars weapons for e.g.

One proponent of Quantised Inertia made the below post a while ago.
Aside from his glib disclaimer about this being "far in the future" - this "not Antigravity" principle seems to make more sense and might even account for some of the "lore" that surrounds possible development of exotic propulsion systems as the core principles are seemingly not new.


Taken from : physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.co.uk... by Dr Wayne Mcculloch

It's often said that when offering new ideas, it best not to attack the old stuff, but to build the new. So here is a deliberate attempt to do that and show what a MiHsC-ian (quantised inertia) world would look like. Just a warning: I am thinking far ahead here. I'll start with the obvious. The gravity well would be broken because it would become possible to launch objects fuelessly into space by making a gradient in the zero point field. This is, according to MiHsC, what the emdrive does. The launches will be far safer as well, no huge explosions would be needed to blast atoms downward to get Newton's momentum accountant to move the rocket the other way. You just need to put some meta-materials (a metal structure that bends electromagnetic waves) above or in your satellite or human-rated capsule to damp the wavelength of Unruh waves that are likely to form above it, and it'll glide slowly into space. Similarly it would revolutionise satellite station-keeping, as the Chinese have already recognised. Ground transport would also be revolutionised: no wheels would be required: put metamaterials above cars and they will be pulled up by the Unruh-void and glide along frictionlessly. Want a floating house? Floating city? No problem, given a big enough damper above. The problem is to have a metal structure of the right size to damp the Unruh waves that are likely to form. For terrestrial accelerations these are a light year long! In the emdrive, photon accelerations are huge so the Unruh waves are as short as the cavity, so its small size can do the job.

originally posted by: playswithmachines
a reply to: Zaphod58

Hmm, i would imagine that if the alphabet agencies wanted to discredt you thats the very first thing they would do.
I have seen what company blacklisting can do, i got blacklisted several times, funny thing is one of them has done it twice yet i am going back there in Febuary for another special job.
I don't care what they say, as long as they keep paying me, LOL but you could make a good case against me, if you wanted to.

Meh

I have had the same "company blacklisting" thing occur, all depnds on the circumstance, but the ppl involed were educated about Discovery and Depositions under Oath ( and that anything could be asked during Deposition ) suddenly there were explanations and apologies and some money all around

But if you take Oaths to Defend and Protect the Constitution and the US and Security Oaths, It's Simple "SHUTUP" when it comes to A51 etc etc that is stuff to protect everyone. BL's behavior on many Levels was WRONG and the ABC's made him a Non-Person. This does not surprise me or shock me in the least.

MAKE Them PAY you very Well...

originally posted by: playswithmachines
a reply to: Hermit777

To be honest, i'm not a great fan of Friedman for some reason, he's like a showman, like Greer.
But yes, i thought of alloying the isotopes in various ratio's etc, but as far as i know the max is 2-3 weeks.
That still gives us a problem.

Anyway, other scientists have come forward & said they saw Bob at Los Alamos before he went to A51.

And yes he's not a scientist, neither am i.

But i have to be objective, we do have the A51 analysis, we have most of the FL details, a lot of it fits.
Like i said, it would not surprise me at all if there are at least 4 'space drives' in operation, not counting teleportation of course!
Later!

Stan yes a Showman i agree, shame because he was a pretty good Applied Physicist.

Theoretically, 113 115 and a mundane in a Matrix could munch free Protons from a spent Fuel Rod and the 113 155 in that Matrix may not break down as fast as the spent fuel rod turning to lead. Moreover, i theorized that it might keep those Very Rare Earths [113 115] Atomically young cease the natural breakdown. (e.g. U-238's 5 stage progression to Lead. Whereas 238 is young and Lead is Old)

I hope they are making something to take People to the Stars, I really do and the Gov will tell me when they Tell me, I can wait, well not for a long time, age catches us all. My Dad waited for a "Buck Rodgers Flying Belt" he never got to see a viable one, much less buy one. So i guess i am stuck watching Chemical Rockets on TV.



P.S. Teleportation the Energy cost would be Phenomenal and besides Like Dr. McCoy i will take the elevator or Shuttle, Thank you very much, a man's atoms and molecules were not to be bounced all over the Universe. LOL

originally posted by: playswithmachines
a reply to: playswithmachines

Pictures, or it didn't happen!

...

Yes this is happening now, not something you would want on the MSM but it's almost there, this thing even makes it's own fuel from seawater (provided we can get the D2 membranes made) and the waste fuel is...
Well you can guess that if you are smart...
Bye for now.
-PWM-

Wonderful Graphics Thank you

a reply to: Jukiodone

I agree with your thought, the Alternate energy generating things and spaceflight were the purpose of this thread.

Discussing these ideas are what is necessary. Which is why originally i asked about "Die Glocka" The Bell about mercury
spinning. And of course that brings into view the uses of Very Rare Earths or Asteroids in the case of 111 - 121.

I do like your Cite in the post very good.

Fusion scares the Hell outta me, like holding a fire breathing Dragon by the Tale. We will see.

a reply to: Hermit777

Thank you for your input, i have no idea what Unruh waves are, lol
As for 'mechanical antigravity' yes that exists also, i am not at liberty to post files on that without consent from the author.
Yes there could be a way of stabilising 115, i'm not an expert on atoms per se

Fusion is definitely the way to go IMO, all i need is these fast neutron detectors up & running, i may need special materials like a gallium arsenide crystal & a photomultiplier tube (i had one once, lost it when moving, damn).
My solid state one isn't yet able to count small groups of photons in the scintillation material, but i only have Alpha & Beta sources here & maybe they are too weak.
There are at least 2 kinds of these reactors, one runs on Deuterium (readily available from seawater) and Helium-3 (which is extremely rare here but the moon has tons of it).
He3 and H3-D2 reactions give a lot more energy but a lot more neutrons. Ideal for satellites etc but not for home use.

D2 reactors on the other hand, give out less energy per gram (about 70 tons of TNT) than the heavier isotopes, but it also gives out less fast neutrons. These can be scattered/absorbed and the whole thing fits in a suitcase.
No heat exchangers are needed, these turn mass directly into electricity.
Controlling the reaction is fairly straightforward, and with some double redundant safety systems in place, they are completely safe to use.

That's another project, we should be able to make a proof of concept using small-scale models.

I will leave you with this thought; A lifter develops 500 times more thrust than NASA's 'new' EMdrive.
A gravitor has 10,000 times more thrust than the EMdrive, and it uses less than 1/1000th of the power.
So you don't need hi-tech reactors, a truck battery will get you around.

I think that antigravity & bending space & time are not about humungous amounts of energy; Nature supplies that.
All you need to do is create an imbalance, like pushing 2 magnets together. Nature forces them apart.
This theory has been proven electrically so i am guessing it's the same for gravity control (being the correct term)

If i told you it was possible to launch a small probe, electrically, into LEO using just 110 watt-hours, you will laugh i am sure. NASA won't be laughing though....

ETA i posted some info on gravity control in this thread

originally posted by: playswithmachines
a reply to: Hermit777

Thank you for your input, i have no idea what Unruh waves are, lol
As for 'mechanical antigravity' yes that exists also, i am not at liberty to post files on that without consent from the author.

No one (publicly) knows if Unruh waves are actually a "thing"- it's just a theory but well worth looking into...along with Quantised Inertia.

By Mechanical Anti Gravity please read "the appearance of Mechanical AntiGravity" - by this I mean things like Rotor craft or Helicopters which are clearly NOT "Antigravity".

As you rightly point out- fighting against Gravity using Mass/Energy is probably a backwards approach but leveraging other naturally preferred states (for example a hot air balloon appearing to overcome Gravity in Earths atmosphere) might hold promise.

a reply to: Jukiodone

I need to take some time to read this.
On my YT channel 'stawmy' i posted a lecture from Eric Laithwaite, he showed us that momentum (due to mass) is not the same as inertia.
They are separate, and this gives us yet another clue.
I have seen plans for an inertial drive system that provides 70 tons of thrust per unit, each unit being about the size of a washing machine. The technology isn't all that advanced, just some finely engineered parts.
We can now machine parts (with mills, lathes etc) to within 300nM accuracy, and with micron precision all round.
We can deposit materials atoms thick onto substrates. Up to now this tech is only being used to make the next generation smartphones but it could also take us into space.

I may be absent for a while, a lot to do, saving the planet is a hard & thankless task,
but hey, somebody has to do it

Would recommend a review of Hal Puthoff's physics papers before he went all spooky.

Cant post a link to the full PDF for some reason but if you google " Engineering the Zero-Point Field and Polarizable Vacuum for Interstellar Flight" my results give a direct link.

Edit: Working Link
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu...

Amazing thread! S&F!

a reply to: Jukiodone

Hey Juki,

I too enjoy Putthoff, rueda and haisch. I think theres something to what theyre going on about. And its a good starting point to understanding how the triangles and discs operate.

However, in my personal opinion. Putthoff's work was incomplete in its assessment. For instance he only accounted for EM vacua in its equations. Which would not explain how nuetrinos have inertial mass although not EM but Weak force related. Of course the Weak force has W- and W+ charged bosons which incorporate EM. But, i think he needs to account for weak force vacua in its equations to be more complete. However i believe they are right about treating the vacuum and its virtual particles as a dielectric. But is the vacuum naturally a dielectric or can it be turned locally into one via superconductors coupling via bosons to the virtual particles of the vacuum?

Ie your disc or triangle isnt matching impedance with the vacuum its making the vacuum the superconductors bitch and making it locally emulate whats going on in the superconductor.

As for how the tr3b manipulates mass or gravity.

Consider this.

Gravitomagnetic fields and forces are a product of the particles angular momentum and its EM charge. Planets like earth have a ton of particles so it has a high net EM charge but it rotates slowly (angular momentum and framedragging effects) so that its gravitational field and mass is what it is that we experience. A single electron has a little bit of mass. Its charge is very tinsy. But its angular momentum is really high. A high frame dragging rate. So it too develops some inertial mass. A tiny amount because its charge is so small but its there.

Now in a super conductor. The cooper pairs all operate in lock step and effectively become one giant atom. So what you have is a giant electron trillions of times larger than a single electron and has the ccumulative charge of all the individual electrons therin. But its still spinning at the rate of a single electron. So it now has abnormally high charge and a very fast spin and angular momentum. Its like a mini neutron star or something. This will increase abnormally the gravitomagnetic fields strength beyond its componant parts sum. Artificial gravity of sorts.

Now heres further stuff to consider. Normally a cooper pair (two bound electrons) will have less mass than the sum of its two electrons. But because of framedragging effects the mass actually creeps up to higher than that of two individual electrons. If you can account for and mitigate the framedragging effects the cooper pairs return to their slightly lighter than normal mass. A net reduction in mass and inertia of the test mass ( only a few percent).

If you could over compensate for framedragging you may be able to keep going and continue to loose inertial mass.

Flux liner? Sometimes i wonder if a combination of physically spinning the superconductor, an external magnetic field and pulsing or chirping the electric charge inside he superconductor via square or saw toothed waves the potential energy (in terms of gauge) of the collapsing electric field can be redirected instead to a flux line one step or more behind the rate of the angular momentum of the superconductor via induction to the external magnetic field. Essentially un curling the reference frames and undoing the framedragging creating your "mach sheild"

Depending on how you cmpensate or add to the framedragging you can increase or decrease the mass, inertia and gravity of said test mass.

Making the vacuum your bitch.
If you put the superconductor inside a resonant cavity. Like say a em resonant plasma cavity you may be able to couple the virtual EM particles to the superconductor and recruit their charge to that of the superconductor amplifying the gravitomagnetic effect several magnitudes. Essentially not matching impedance with the vacuum but get the local vacuum to emulate and couple with the superconductor. Make that region of the vacuum to "superconduct" in the EM vacua.

If the virtual EM charges of the vacuum are superconducting what would that do, if puthoff et al are vaguely correct, to the value of C? Would light conduct faster than normal through the vacuum? Exploiting either the natural dielectic qualities of the vacuum or perhaps that of an artificially created dielectric due to the supercondictor and that resonance jazz.

Or could you use that same plasma cavity and perhaps metamaterial skin of vehicle to function like a parallel plate wave guide and via electric charge potential induce something like a Kerr Effect and change the refractive index of said vacuum in that location altering the value of C?

Try initially building a superconductor surrounded by a coil for the external magnetic field and you get thexearlu disc ufos. But since superconductor spinning cpunter rotational forces will develop making disc spin and unstable control wise. Take three smaller super conductors though arrange them in a triangle and the counter rotation locks preventing unwanted spinning of vehicle and makes it reliable and stable again. Modern triangle ufos.

The orange redish prbs glowing in the night sky. EM resonant plasma cavity with vehicle inside?

Deep hued slow pulsing lights accompanying orb or triangle. IR laser operating like a phase conjugate soliton beam to create plasma cavity and keep it going. Bluish white lights at each corner of triangle? Optical boom of light travelling at the altered "superluminal" speeds inside cavity exiting and entering normal space and creating cenkorev(sp) radiation closest to super conductors where field effect the strongest?

For propulsion. Create gradient of field strength if youve reduced your mass below the zero point threshold and the vacuums external pressure will squeeze the test mass in a direction impelling motion. Or just have the repulsive gravitomagnetic field push things around for you instead.

Ok i stop babbling for now.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I think Bedlam has been leading you down the wrong holes.

a reply to: Bornsecrets

Id agree. Its his job.

Most of the superconductor stuff is ning li, tajmr, and others.

Hey you got me intetested. Point me to a hole worth climbing down. Probably eat it up.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

There's gold in them thar hills.
My physics taps out beyond basic concepts but there are enough "what ifs" to keep it interesting.

a reply to: Bornsecrets

Any of your own thoughts beside proclamations?

Hey juki,

If your interested, takaaki musha of honda corp r&d did experiments where he believes hes connected putthoffs ZPF dielectric concept with bifield brown effect.

Google "explanation of dynamical bifield brown effect from the standpoint of the zpf field. "

a reply to: Jukiodone

I ended up at this place, viXra.org, following some talk about gravity shielding. Ever been? It is full of crazy (like 8 different "proofs" of the twin prime conjecture) but there are some interesting weird stuff. And at least they are trying to start a conversation using math and science. Not sure about the gravity motor...

I spent some time reading math proofs and realizing some did not get it. Both by reading their words and checking their math (mostly algebra stuff).

Nice to see a mish mash of crazy! How much real science is going on though is another question. So if you ever run out of ideas or get really bored read a couple papers over. One method of keeping your humility!

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Jukiodone

Hey Juki,

I too enjoy Putthoff, rueda and haisch. I think theres something to what theyre going on about. And its a good starting point to understanding how the triangles and discs operate.

However, in my personal opinion. Putthoff's work was incomplete in its assessment. For instance he only accounted for EM vacua in its equations. Which would not explain how nuetrinos have inertial mass although not EM but Weak force related. Of course the Weak force has W- and W+ charged bosons which incorporate EM. But, i think he needs to account for weak force vacua in its equations to be more complete. However i believe they are right about treating the vacuum and its virtual particles as a dielectric. But is the vacuum naturally a dielectric or can it be turned locally into one via superconductors coupling via bosons to the virtual particles of the vacuum?

Ie your disc or triangle isnt matching impedance with the vacuum its making the vacuum the superconductors bitch and making it locally emulate whats going on in the superconductor.

As for how the tr3b manipulates mass or gravity.

Consider this.

Gravitomagnetic fields and forces are a product of the particles angular momentum and its EM charge. Planets like earth have a ton of particles so it has a high net EM charge but it rotates slowly (angular momentum and framedragging effects) so that its gravitational field and mass is what it is that we experience. A single electron has a little bit of mass. Its charge is very tinsy. But its angular momentum is really high. A high frame dragging rate. So it too develops some inertial mass. A tiny amount because its charge is so small but its there.

Now in a super conductor. The cooper pairs all operate in lock step and effectively become one giant atom. So what you have is a giant electron trillions of times larger than a single electron and has the ccumulative charge of all the individual electrons therin. But its still spinning at the rate of a single electron. So it now has abnormally high charge and a very fast spin and angular momentum. Its like a mini neutron star or something. This will increase abnormally the gravitomagnetic fields strength beyond its componant parts sum. Artificial gravity of sorts.

Now heres further stuff to consider. Normally a cooper pair (two bound electrons) will have less mass than the sum of its two electrons. But because of framedragging effects the mass actually creeps up to higher than that of two individual electrons. If you can account for and mitigate the framedragging effects the cooper pairs return to their slightly lighter than normal mass. A net reduction in mass and inertia of the test mass ( only a few percent).

If you could over compensate for framedragging you may be able to keep going and continue to loose inertial mass.

Flux liner? Sometimes i wonder if a combination of physically spinning the superconductor, an external magnetic field and pulsing or chirping the electric charge inside he superconductor via square or saw toothed waves the potential energy (in terms of gauge) of the collapsing electric field can be redirected instead to a flux line one step or more behind the rate of the angular momentum of the superconductor via induction to the external magnetic field. Essentially un curling the reference frames and undoing the framedragging creating your "mach sheild"

Depending on how you cmpensate or add to the framedragging you can increase or decrease the mass, inertia and gravity of said test mass.

Making the vacuum your bitch.
If you put the superconductor inside a resonant cavity. Like say a em resonant plasma cavity you may be able to couple the virtual EM particles to the superconductor and recruit their charge to that of the superconductor amplifying the gravitomagnetic effect several magnitudes. Essentially not matching impedance with the vacuum but get the local vacuum to emulate and couple with the superconductor. Make that region of the vacuum to "superconduct" in the EM vacua.

If the virtual EM charges of the vacuum are superconducting what would that do, if puthoff et al are vaguely correct, to the value of C? Would light conduct faster than normal through the vacuum? Exploiting either the natural dielectic qualities of the vacuum or perhaps that of an artificially created dielectric due to the supercondictor and that resonance jazz.

Or could you use that same plasma cavity and perhaps metamaterial skin of vehicle to function like a parallel plate wave guide and via electric charge potential induce something like a Kerr Effect and change the refractive index of said vacuum in that location altering the value of C?

Try initially building a superconductor surrounded by a coil for the external magnetic field and you get thexearlu disc ufos. But since superconductor spinning cpunter rotational forces will develop making disc spin and unstable control wise. Take three smaller super conductors though arrange them in a triangle and the counter rotation locks preventing unwanted spinning of vehicle and makes it reliable and stable again. Modern triangle ufos.

The orange redish prbs glowing in the night sky. EM resonant plasma cavity with vehicle inside?

Deep hued slow pulsing lights accompanying orb or triangle. IR laser operating like a phase conjugate soliton beam to create plasma cavity and keep it going. Bluish white lights at each corner of triangle? Optical boom of light travelling at the altered "superluminal" speeds inside cavity exiting and entering normal space and creating cenkorev(sp) radiation closest to super conductors where field effect the strongest?

For propulsion. Create gradient of field strength if youve reduced your mass below the zero point threshold and the vacuums external pressure will squeeze the test mass in a direction impelling motion. Or just have the repulsive gravitomagnetic field push things around for you instead.

Ok i stop babbling for now.

I wanted peeps to read this again, hence the full quote, but i will get back to you on the answer..........keep it up peeps!

a reply to: playswithmachines

This sounds like the X-files episode where the polarity in area 51 near the black mailbox went out of phase by 90 degrees.
We need a 5 year old to explain it.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR

Gravitomagnetic fields and forces are a product of the particles angular momentum

Yes.

and its EM charge.

No. Gravitomagnetism does not involve electromagnetism. The word 'magnetism' is used by physicists as a conceptual analogue and a codeword, meaning to suggest the analogy with electromagnetism as the effect of something with 'charge' (electric or gravitational) in motion:

electric fields created by charges : magnetic fields created by moving charges

as

central (ordinary) gravitational fields created by mass-energy : gravitomagnetic fields created by moving mass-energy

There just isn't a separate word for 'gravitomagnetic' effects as there is for electric vs magnetic, because the physical and practical effect of gravitomagnetism is so utterly tiny it is nearlhy experimentally unobservable except just now by LIGO (waves require the whole thing to fluctuate like EM waves) and totally outside of any known engineering.

Other than that, yes the superconductor would be in a single quantum state of all its electrons but its total net spin couldn't be more than the total net spin of its electrons. And if that was super high, then it had to get its angular momentum from somewhere and where is that? So if went up, then something else nearby had to go down by the same amount, and looking from a long distance away----no large imbalance.

Still need to conserve angular momentum and energy.

Anyway, nuclei are so much heavier than electrons, so you'd like to get them into a substantially correlated spin state, but I have no idea really how to do that and keep them there other than making a neutron star.

originally posted by: mbkennel
So if went up, then something else nearby had to go down by the same amount, and looking from a long distance away----no large imbalance.

Still need to conserve angular momentum and energy.

In your opinion, could anomalous readings from the resonant cavity thruster tests actually be the result of Photons being moved RIGHT (for example) in the cavity- which then results in the cavity itself being moved LEFT (thrust reading) as the Universe (Rindler Horizon/Hubble Horizon??) conserves momentum?