British Council Spies

originally posted by: ColaTesla
a reply to: PaddyInf

It is not slavery, Its called "contributing" And would be seen as a harsh incentive to find paid work, i have given some thought of Your example of the 50 year old "long time worker" With the billions saved by the harsh get back to work measures, Incentives could be given to employers to hire people exactly like the example you shared, this could take the form of tax breaks and pension contributions, And be quite generous so that employers are actively looking for those category of workers.

long time workers would receive cash instead of food stamps while they search for new employment, They have contributed and would be looked after. I would only want the harsh measure to affect the lazy and they families that been on benefits for generations and would never work otherwise, these are the people responsible for most of the crime statistics, so crime rates would fall aswell, if they refuse to work, they would be neutered and unable to breed, This way the cycle would be broken within 2 decades, But i predict only a small "protest" majority would go down that route....

First of all I do not believe you have given ANY thought on the matter, first you need to create the job's, second those job's have to be both secure and pay a "fair" living wage that people can actually live on and thirdly how do you incentive those employers, the only incentive that ever worked here on the UK was and is Government Subsidy whereby a company is subsidized - given tax incentive's - interest free or low interest government loan's etc in order to boost the economy by providing employment.

In the past too many company's abused this system but many large employers only stayed (when they were still here) in the UK because of this system but here is were your ideology will fall down as I see you are distinctly far right wing in your economic political point of view, in order to sustain this system the government has to be a part owner of much of industry and especially the infrastructure, this is essential as it allow's the government to provide producers cheap energy supply, subsidized transport network's which are also essential to there work force and other primary function's to make this scheme work.

Also the Government has to stand it's ground, not sacrifice it's own industry's in the name of international competition treatis with foreign power's which all too often are passed after behind closed door deal's - often personal financial one's or other sector one's are passed between the negotiating party's on such matter's.

In other word's Privatization, you ever heard of that word in your part of the world, privatization was BAD in the long term for the nation's economic's but did provide a short term boost that Thatcher's Tory's whom were responsible smiled about knowing full well they had sabotaged both the economy and the ability to fix it for the next Labour Government, in the event however they or rather the financial interest's behind them also managed coup and drove Labor out of the picture replacing them with Closet Tory's called Mockingly NEW LABOUR.

As for the neutering, be careful what you wish for that is also an even more extreme evil point of view that smack's very strongly of NAZI ideology, I am serious the NAZI's brought in Euthenasia and also sterilized those they regarded as sub normal, the planned to create a dual society of elite and of worker class and beneath them the European mass of population were going to be used as a slave labor work force (those they did not kill) and to be sterilized as well so that europe would become totally german simply by the subservient people's being unable to reproduce (and guess what they where going to do with them once they could no longer work).

You really need to get your head back out of that dark stinky place and see the truth of just how far wrong your point of view really is, who planted that ideology in your psyche and what were THERE motivation's, are you a good little clerk designated to work for the party or are you a free thinking self determining human being able to establish a moral and ethical point of view on your own.

Empathy is the ability to feel what other's feel and to see through there eye's or rather from there perspective.

You may see a way out but another person may not then again they may see that your way lead's to a cliff with a bloody big drop off it into the abyss.

Now not everything you say is wrong.

Multi generational benefit claimant's, first you have to look at a case by case study as any blanket methodology is wrong as it will unfairly target the vulnerable and harm the innocent.

Take for example a family whom live together BUT there are no job's available for them, moving is not an option as home which you must know for most people is part of there psyche and extension of themselve's is were the heart is, there can be a great many reason's why they do not wan't to move from there location and why should they it is part of them, it is there home, is it there fault that the industry's, coal, fishing etc upon which there family traditional drew it's livelihood vanished because of Whitehall prat's and worse Brussel's prat's, is it right that you victimize them, there grandfather fought in the war and lost his two brother's before coming home ill and dying young, there grandmother did all she could to raise these her kid's, they then inherited a community betrayed and abandoned by Whitehall Tory ideological attack's on the coal industry, ask Kester he is very well versed on the FACT's and they are FACT's concering that point in question.

So on that point I also disagree with you.

Quota's to put people off the benefit system and bringing in private contractors' such as french company's etc to assess ill people, they don't care if a person is sick there priority, there ONLY priority is to put people of there sickness pay and say they are fit to work - ONCE AGAIN is that Ethical or Correct, if you are a sentient being then you will have to admit that NO IT IS NOT ETHICAL BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE OF RIGTH WING ECONOMIC IDEOLOGY.

Now down to something were I sound right wing, our ancestor's built this nation, they fought and died for it, they tilled the earth for countless generation's mixing there sweat and blood with the very soil so the land IS our ancestor's, there work, there suffering and there legacy to WE.

That bring's me to Foreign immigrant's, New REPLACEMENT slave wage workers, they get all the benefit's the government can throw at them especially the EU immigrant's - even despite Brexit while our own people, the WE I mentioned before are the victim's of the right wing tory economic austerity measures - IS THIS CORRECT, well obviously not but it happen's anyway.

There are so many point's but to pull you up on contribution's, even a many whom has worked and paid in all his life get' treated like dirt when he need's help, IF he is one of our's, are you therefore right, NO you are wrong it you wish to understand what it is to contribute I suggest to take a Kibbutz holiday in Isreal though that may be a little too socialist to you, they work but for the common good not the selfish it's mine attitude.

Oh and what make's you think you are superior to those people, you are not but please give us your ethical argument on that point.

a reply to: ColaTesla

Slavery is the ownership of a person with associated forced labour without financial remuneration. Slavery is where a person or state has full control over a persons life, liberty and fortune. This is exactly what you propose.

Have you given any thought to the long term negative impact of the measures you propose which I highlighted?

Have you figured out where all of these extra jobs are going to come from? If there are no jobs then there are no jobs. Simple as that. This is not the fault of the unemployed, yet you advocate punishing them anyway. Your logic seems to suggest that all of those who are unemployed are that way by choice. I totally agree that some are, but many are not. No government has yet come up with a method of distinguish one from the other - any plans for this?

Have you worked out how to manage the potential public order and crime issues which arise in societies without adequate social support for the unemployed? I've travelled the World as part of my job and have seen societies like the one you suggest. It's not pretty.

Your unpaid work system would only contribute to unemployment. The community tasks these people would do takes that job from the employment market. It also opens the door to free labour as a cash saving exercise for greedy authorities.

How do you work out who is deserving of the extra money etc? The current system of deciding who is fit for work has come under massive negative scrutiny. Sorting the genuine cases from the malingerers is a lot more difficult than you imagine. Recent studies have shown that financial sanctions have virtually no impact on getting people into the work place.

As for neutering undesirable people, this is a tactic only advocated by the most depraved societies which have ever existed.

a reply to: testingtesting

There are cases like that, A former neighbor whom was also a thief and whom I had several run in's with him on occasion in my home town of Ormskirk was faking disability and using a blue badge when there was little or nothing wrong with him.

BUT let me tell you from personal painful experience, I worked in industry, hard manual labour - real work not sitting behind a desk and making out I was tired after wearing out a chair - for twenty years' working in production, throwing large metal and oak pallet's around a warehouse etc then I worked in security for over ten but I have both industrial injury's and nerve damage from being attacked in an unprovoked attack which put me off a degree course as I had delayed concussion and neurological and neck trauma which lasted for well over two years, slurred speech, walking into thing's and falling over my own feet all the time, memory loss you know, something my mother told me about I have no recollection of after the event she told he that the guys whom took X-rays of my neck said they could not understand how I was walking as my neck vertibrae were seperated, I have later X-rays showing calcification down one side of my neck and guess what it IS a pain in the neck.

In industry I would work - this is before working time regulation but I Would work all the hours god sent six in the morning to half ten at night then back at six am again to repeat it all over again six day's a week then an eight hour shift on the Sunday, I now also have an arrhythmic heart rate, I have refused a pace maker as I don't want some foreign doctor with a dodgy education messing around inside my chest even though it is pin hole these day's, the quack would probably stick in on my stomach or something so I make do with beta blocker's (Which have a warning not to drive or use heavy machinery), I am tired, nauseous and dizzy a lot and if I act strenuously I feel feint with my heart pounding and often pain and tightness in my chest and down my left arm which I get a lot anyway, when I lie down on my side I often hear my own heart beat then stop after about four or five beat's then start again.

My nerve damage (lower back) causes any prolonged standing to feel like burning glass in the sole's and heel's of my feet and up my right leg.

I worked with this as long as I could it was absolute agony and I feinted twice in my security job which I had only taken because I felt too ill to continue in industry, thankfully no one saw me fall down the stairs on one occasion when it happened after a quick coffee break in the canteen ( my old INDUSTRY job is gone now anyway and my former employer like many company's in the UK these day's now only employ Poles on agency rate's ) but I winged it as long as I could far after I could no longer work effectively as I was too ill for a long time.

Then I get sent by the then LDS managed DWP to some private firm called ATOS and guess what they think they are my Lord Jesus because according to them after sitting there and answering a few question's it was a miracle because there was nothing wrong with me, despite the assessor asking if I Was ok on more than one occasion and asking if I needed a drink, hypocrite.

I had no money despite all those years of hard work for over a year, sanctioned so when I hear people supporting that I want to dearly wrap my hand's around there throat's and ring there scrawny neck's, to survive I drained what little saving's I had, Now IF they had been correct do you think for one minute I would have done that, there is no money left in my bank as a result.

Now that said there ARE people like that guy on the golf course or from another example a woman whom was spending her disability money on holidays abroad etc but why should the innocent suffer for there sake, if your friend is above board and does not harm the sick so he can fill his quota then fine we need more like him BUT only if he is above board and not a quota filler as they are far worse than the people they are hunting.

I am far more fortunate than many as I have family with business and most live a comfortable middle class life so I had help from them and the local MP who wrote to the DUP and had that wrong decision finally overturned - they still owe me though I worked and paid in for it so it is my money after all.

The Tory's are acting out of Ideological intent not economic intent, media is right wing and has portrayed benefit family's as all scum with program's like benefit's street and such when in fact very few of them in real life are bad people, most would give you there last piece of bread if you were hungry and it is the right wing mindless yobbos whom piss on the poor and homeless sleeping in door ways so think about that.
www.bbc.co.uk... (as Ill as I am I would have killed them for that but they I would not survive and wonder how many die of NATURAL causes because of Tory policy and right wing media brainwashed public opinion, you don't make your own opinion these day's it is fed to you by the right wing media, the US are finally waking up to there media being fake but over here in the UK we have yet to even turn in our sleep)

Valid research that did not fit the government's criteria was ignored as it showed that less than 3 percent of benefit's claimant's were faking.

So how much does it save really.

And let's get to the economics of benefit's, it is hand to mouth for nearly all claimant's, the little money they receives act's like a subsidy for retail, it goes from the claimant to the food shop, to the utility company, to there landlord and actually act's to drive these and related sector's which support's Job's in those area's, not sitting in there bank's and making them rich.


Food stamp's, people have to live and can not live on food stamp's, the cost of policing the food stamp is huge so it is seldom done and retailors in the Republic of Ireland to take an example will BUY them from the food stamp claimant for a fraction of there actual value, the shop's then claim there full value form the government, the claimant's then have less to live on but can buy that pair of shoe's they need etc and can starve until there next food stamp comes in, food stamp's drive black market economic's which is bad, promote's crime and is unethical.