Celebrities That Play Nerds But Are Hotter In Real Life?

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake
And just like men who shaven their face to make it look more defined or so less as a preference. In that way you are "presenting yourself differently than you actually are." Women use makeup the same.

Going by your logic, having your hair cut is equivalent to putting makeup on. Removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body.

Not sure you understood that. You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

By your logic then it's okay if they shave off their eyebrows because hair? But drawing eyebrows back on is wrong because it's foreign. I bet you support men dying their gray hair but when a women dyes her hair for the same concerns it's deceptive.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake
And just like men who shaven their face to make it look more defined or so less as a preference. In that way you are "presenting yourself differently than you actually are." Women use makeup the same.

Going by your logic, having your hair cut is equivalent to putting makeup on. Removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body.

Not sure you understood that. You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

By your logic then it's okay if they shave off their eyebrows because hair? But drawing eyebrows back on is wrong because it's foreign. I bet you support men dying their gray hair but when a women dyes her hair for the same concerns it's deceptive.

You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

How can someone removing something from their body be equal to adding something from outside of one's body to one's body? As far as I know, probably over 99.9% of the world gets their hair cut regularly. We have to do it because it's impractical and even dangerous to walk around with extremely long hair. I believe the choice of having a beard is often based on exactly the same thing. Even if someone chooses to have a beard, it usually must be trimmed for practical reasons.

The bottom line to me is again the fact that I believe removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body. I agree that certain hair cuts and other hair removal can drastically change how someone looks. I proposed in the original post that using makeup is an artifice. I would say using hair dye is an artifice too.

The place where I'm drawing the line is this...

I believe removing hair from one's body cannot be called an artifice in any case (as long as the hair removal doesn't include adding something from outside of oneself to the hair). I just realized that using hair gel or hair dye is exactly the same kind of artifice as makeup. I had never thought about that before.

I don't care how one removes hair from their body. I could never see that as an artifice.

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake
And just like men who shaven their face to make it look more defined or so less as a preference. In that way you are "presenting yourself differently than you actually are." Women use makeup the same.

Going by your logic, having your hair cut is equivalent to putting makeup on. Removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body.

Not sure you understood that. You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

By your logic then it's okay if they shave off their eyebrows because hair? But drawing eyebrows back on is wrong because it's foreign. I bet you support men dying their gray hair but when a women dyes her hair for the same concerns it's deceptive.

You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

How can someone removing something from their body be equal to adding something from outside of one's body to one's body? As far as I know, probably over 99.9% of the world gets their hair cut regularly. We have to do it because it's impractical and even dangerous to walk around with extremely long hair. I believe the choice of having a beard is often based on exactly the same thing. Even if someone chooses to have a beard, it usually must be trimmed for practical reasons.

The bottom line to me is again the fact that I believe removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body. I agree that certain hair cuts and other hair removal can drastically change how someone looks. I proposed in the original post that using makeup is an artifice. I would say using hair dye is an artifice too.

The place where I'm drawing the line is this...

I believe removing hair from one's body cannot be called an artifice in any case (as long as the hair removal doesn't include adding something from outside of oneself to the hair). I just realized that using hair gel or hair dye is exactly the same kind of artifice as makeup. I had never thought about that before.

I don't care how one removes hair from their body. I could never see that as an artifice.

I guess we're not talking about appearances here? If a man shaves his beard into let's say a goatee. Why is he doing it? To change his look and that very well may play up his facial features. Maybe he believes his chin is on the small side, now with a goatee his hair makes his chin look more in symmetry with the rest of his face.

Makeup can do the same for a woman.

Okay, I can see the confusion here:

I don't agree with that at all. When I shave my face, I'm not presenting myself any differently than I actually am. I could grow a beard, but presenting myself with a beard or without a beard is simply a matter of presenting myself as I am either way. The same cannot be said for presenting yourself with makeup. I feel makeup is deceitful.

- Your OP quote
So, you have never shaved your face beyond perceived and or employment safety reasons? Then we'll have to agree to disagree but for your own sake look more into things instead of relying on preconceived notions about makeup for example-such as "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue .

Some women and even men have facial disfigurements that makeup makes them feel more confident when they wear it.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake
And just like men who shaven their face to make it look more defined or so less as a preference. In that way you are "presenting yourself differently than you actually are." Women use makeup the same.

Going by your logic, having your hair cut is equivalent to putting makeup on. Removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body.

Not sure you understood that. You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

By your logic then it's okay if they shave off their eyebrows because hair? But drawing eyebrows back on is wrong because it's foreign. I bet you support men dying their gray hair but when a women dyes her hair for the same concerns it's deceptive.

You agree that a man shaving his face does not change or of reflect differently on how he looks, similar to a woman using makeup for defining their face?

How can someone removing something from their body be equal to adding something from outside of one's body to one's body? As far as I know, probably over 99.9% of the world gets their hair cut regularly. We have to do it because it's impractical and even dangerous to walk around with extremely long hair. I believe the choice of having a beard is often based on exactly the same thing. Even if someone chooses to have a beard, it usually must be trimmed for practical reasons.

The bottom line to me is again the fact that I believe removing hair from your body is not in the same ballpark as adding something from outside of your body to your body. I agree that certain hair cuts and other hair removal can drastically change how someone looks. I proposed in the original post that using makeup is an artifice. I would say using hair dye is an artifice too.

The place where I'm drawing the line is this...

I believe removing hair from one's body cannot be called an artifice in any case (as long as the hair removal doesn't include adding something from outside of oneself to the hair). I just realized that using hair gel or hair dye is exactly the same kind of artifice as makeup. I had never thought about that before.

I don't care how one removes hair from their body. I could never see that as an artifice.

I guess we're not talking about appearances here? If a man shaves his beard into let's say a goatee. Why is he doing it? To change his look and that very well may play up his facial features. Maybe he believes his chin is on the small side, now with a goatee his hair makes his chin look more in symmetry with the rest of his face.

Makeup can do the same for a woman.

Okay, I can see the confusion here:

I don't agree with that at all. When I shave my face, I'm not presenting myself any differently than I actually am. I could grow a beard, but presenting myself with a beard or without a beard is simply a matter of presenting myself as I am either way. The same cannot be said for presenting yourself with makeup. I feel makeup is deceitful.

- Your OP quote
So, you have never shaved your face beyond perceived and or employment safety reasons? Then we'll have to agree to disagree but for your own sake look more into things instead of relying on preconceived notions about makeup for example-such as "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue .

Some women and even men have facial disfigurements that makeup makes them feel more confident when they wear it.

If a man shaves his beard into let's say a goatee. Why is he doing it?

The relevant question to me is not why he does it, but whether or not doing it is an artifice. I don't see how removing hair from one's body can ever be seen as an artifice.

So, you have never shaved your face beyond perceived and or employment safety reasons?

I shave my face because I can't stand the feeling of having hair on my face. It irritates my skin. Am I shaving my face for others? I know I don't do that because my personality is such that if I wanted to have a beard for some reason, I wouldn't change it for others. My ex-wife even encouraged me to shave less often because she liked the look of me having a partial beard. I didn't change for her.

"All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue

The fact that you're putting words in my mouth makes me want to stop debating with you. I wrote that makeup is an artifice regardless of who is using it. The quote above doesn't make any sense when you consider the men who use makeup for women or other men and the women who use makeup for other women (lesbians for example).

a reply to: Profusion

I mentioned:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree but for your own sake look more into things instead of relying on preconceived notions about makeup for example-such as "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue .

That is an example that someone may have. You did mention deception however.

The same cannot be said for presenting yourself with makeup. I feel makeup is deceitful.

Here's an analogy that I believe describes what some women do with makeup: Let's say you go to a used car dealership to buy a car. How would you feel if an old Ford Pinto was remolded to look like a relatively new BMW?

Preconceived notions:

The "real life" pictures are often faker than the pictures taken directly from television and movies. My belief is that women usually wear makeup because they want to exist in a fantasy world as much as possible. Wearing makeup involves fantasy. I don't see any way around that.

Your OP

Then there is no debate if you see no way around that.

originally posted by: dreamingawake
a reply to: Profusion

I mentioned:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree but for your own sake look more into things instead of relying on preconceived notions about makeup for example-such as "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue .

That is an example that someone may have. You did mention deception however.

The same cannot be said for presenting yourself with makeup. I feel makeup is deceitful.

Here's an analogy that I believe describes what some women do with makeup: Let's say you go to a used car dealership to buy a car. How would you feel if an old Ford Pinto was remolded to look like a relatively new BMW?

Preconceived notions:

The "real life" pictures are often faker than the pictures taken directly from television and movies. My belief is that women usually wear makeup because they want to exist in a fantasy world as much as possible. Wearing makeup involves fantasy. I don't see any way around that.

Your OP

Then there is no debate if you see no way around that.

This is what you accused me of writing: "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"

This is what I wrote: "My belief is that women usually wear makeup because they want to exist in a fantasy world as much as possible."

The second statement quoted above is nothing like the first statement quoted above. In the second statement I wrote what my belief is, and that can change. Even if my belief on the matter couldn't change, why would that preclude a debate between us on this issue?

I believe that makeup involves fantasy. I can't see any way of looking at makeup and coming to another conclusion. I'm completely willing to consider alternative points of view, and if I agree with them then I will definitely change my opinion.

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: dreamingawake
a reply to: Profusion

I mentioned:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree but for your own sake look more into things instead of relying on preconceived notions about makeup for example-such as "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"-which is very untrue .

That is an example that someone may have. You did mention deception however.

The same cannot be said for presenting yourself with makeup. I feel makeup is deceitful.

Here's an analogy that I believe describes what some women do with makeup: Let's say you go to a used car dealership to buy a car. How would you feel if an old Ford Pinto was remolded to look like a relatively new BMW?

Preconceived notions:

The "real life" pictures are often faker than the pictures taken directly from television and movies. My belief is that women usually wear makeup because they want to exist in a fantasy world as much as possible. Wearing makeup involves fantasy. I don't see any way around that.

Your OP

Then there is no debate if you see no way around that.

This is what you accused me of writing: "All women wear it to be deceptive towards men"

This is what I wrote: "My belief is that women usually wear makeup because they want to exist in a fantasy world as much as possible."

The second statement quoted above is nothing like the first statement quoted above. In the second statement I wrote what my belief is, and that can change. Even if my belief on the matter couldn't change, why would that preclude a debate between us on this issue?

I believe that makeup involves fantasy. I can't see any way of looking at makeup and coming to another conclusion. I'm completely willing to consider alternative points of view, and if I agree with them then I will definitely change my opinion.

Hmm, thought I explained that I didn't accuse you of such.