Happy un- Birthday Horus

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: Byrd
Because December 25th was celebrated somewhere at sometime as the birth of one deity called Horus (but not the official Horus of Egypt. This Horus may have been the Horus of Behedet.)

And what is distinct about Horus of Behedet that makes December 25th significant?

As I said, that was just a guess. There are a number of deities called Horus and I made a guess at a late version of a Horus.

originally posted by: Byrd
Only if the Pope was declared to be Jesus and each succeeding pope was also declared as the divinity, Jesus. If I recall my Bible correctly, Jesus never proclaimed himself king.

No, but he is, in the form of the Trinity, God made flesh, and indeed, on that basis, with apostolic succession, the pope presumes a similar 'divine' right of leadership ('king' after all being just another descriptive for leader).

Stories associated with Jesus do make claims of his belonging to royal blood lines, even if none of the gospel versions do. That this is more to do with how Christianity was introduced to regions that already had a system of divine king ship is perhaps more telling, but all the same, similarities exist, I believe, for somewhat practical reasons. Jesus offered a newer, more refined (or civilising) form of divine king ship.

I'm not seeing the connection with Horus, here.

originally posted by: Byrd
As I said, that was just a guess. There are a number of deities called Horus and I made a guess at a late version of a Horus.

And do these versions of Horus have anything in common? Or are you saying that they simply share the same name? No common themes within the stories?

originally posted by: Byrd
I'm not seeing the connection with Horus, here.

I didn't say that there was a "connection", I said that I believe that where "similarities" exist, that they are usually of a practical nature or application. It seems that, if nothing else, that divine kingship is a theme that the two story-telling traditions share. The pharaoh is Horus in human form, Jesus is God made flesh. That's a similarity. That's all that I am pointing out.

No big wows or owt like that.

So, you suggested that Horus was a localised deity, why did he rise to such prominence when he did?

a reply to: Byrd

This is interesting...

The temple of Edfu is the largest temple dedicated to Horus and Hathor of Dendera.[10] It was the center of several festivals sacred to Horus. Each year, "Hathor travelled south from her temple at Denderah to visit Horus at Edfu, and this event marking their sacred marriage was the occasion of a great festival and pilgrimage."[11]

en.wikipedia.org...

At Edfu,S there was also a significant importance to embody goddess Hathor as God Horus Wife together with their Son, as she was the life giver and goddess of birth, the mother of all, as well there were preferences for the benevolent God Bess, the Draft god that protected woman at childbirth, and who also was a god of Travelers, as well.

Yearly at Edfu, was the commemoration of a large festivity, that was done honoring the Divine Coupling of these gods, it consisted, in bringing the Central respect statue of the Goddess Hathor from her prime Sanctuary at Dendera; they brought her body-image in a barge so that this goddess will achieve an annual reunion with her husband Heru, as a way to commemorate the ceremonial event.

www.egyptlandofeternity.com...

Do you know at what time of year this festival took place?

Thanks

a reply to: Byrd

enjoyed OP and this post too
- you are well observing and not making a gnostic mess of everything, like one sees so often on the net, related to this topic...thanks

yes horus and set and isis etc were born in succession during epagenomal days,
whereas yule - on which early catholic church tried synchronize christmas with the heathen people,
has literally nothing in common with egypt

the entire problem with the appereant mimick
is because the entire ancient egypt pantheon is based upon the results of the Fall of eden ;
since they stole virtually all the aspects and attributes which adam and eve lost [surrendered] ,
'Set' for example is a construct representing fallen Adam,
'Horus' as a construct-entity, built by stolen aspects of Adam, [especially Sight]
etc

- nice post
cheers

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: Byrd
As I said, that was just a guess. There are a number of deities called Horus and I made a guess at a late version of a Horus.

And do these versions of Horus have anything in common? Or are you saying that they simply share the same name? No common themes within the stories?

The commonality is that the deity is hawk-headed and a solar deity. We don't (to the best of my knowledge) have all the stories on each of these deities, but they can be quite different. The Edfu story of Horus is very different than the Heliopolis story (the one generally told.) These are "local stories" where every great city had its own version of who Horus was (Horus of Nekhen was, I believe, the earliest one.)

Remember that their religion developed over a period of 3,000 years (and possibly longer) Wikipedia gives a good run-down of it. Some of our confusion comes from the Greek and Latin scholars who were writing about the Egyptian culture during the time after Cleopatra's death, when Egypt became a province of Rome. Here we get tales about deities that actually didn't exist, such as "Harpocrates, the god of silence"... which was a mispronunciation of "Heru-pa-Khered" (Horus the Younger.)

And to answer the question about December 25th, I believe this comes from the works of Epiphanus of Salamis or Macrobius (writing after Egypt became a Roman province)

I didn't say that there was a "connection", I said that I believe that where "similarities" exist, that they are usually of a practical nature or application. It seems that, if nothing else, that divine kingship is a theme that the two story-telling traditions share. The pharaoh is Horus in human form, Jesus is God made flesh. That's a similarity. That's all that I am pointing out.

No big wows or owt like that.

So, you suggested that Horus was a localised deity, why did he rise to such prominence when he did?

It's not really a connection that I see, but...

As to how he rose to national prominence, it wasn't an instant thing. He was one of the great Ennead of Heliopolis, mentioned in the Pyramid Texts... the deity of one of the large power centers in Egypt. The royal courts were there, and the king's worship followed the Ennead rather than one of the other cosmogenies from the large cities (each had its own pantheon and stories of these pantheons.) Eventually these become the national deities but fragments of the other deities they absorb bring bits of their stories with them.

So it's interesting and complicated.

originally posted by: loNeNLI
a reply to: Byrd

enjoyed OP and this post too
- you are well observing and not making a gnostic mess of everything, like one sees so often on the net, related to this topic...thanks

Thanks. I'm taking Egyptology in school (I have one more year in a 4 year degree) and love it.

the entire problem with the appereant mimick
is because the entire ancient egypt pantheon is based upon the results of the Fall of eden ;
since they stole virtually all the aspects and attributes which adam and eve lost [surrendered] ,
'Set' for example is a construct representing fallen Adam,
'Horus' as a construct-entity, built by stolen aspects of Adam, [especially Sight]

I don't think that's possible. For on thing, there are over a thousand known Egyptian gods... and this does not begin to count the other spirits and guardians that they also believed in.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: loNeNLI
a reply to: Byrd

enjoyed OP and this post too
- you are well observing and not making a gnostic mess of everything, like one sees so often on the net, related to this topic...thanks

Thanks. I'm taking Egyptology in school (I have one more year in a 4 year degree) and love it.

the entire problem with the appereant mimick
is because the entire ancient egypt pantheon is based upon the results of the Fall of eden ;
since they stole virtually all the aspects and attributes which adam and eve lost [surrendered] ,
'Set' for example is a construct representing fallen Adam,
'Horus' as a construct-entity, built by stolen aspects of Adam, [especially Sight]

I don't think that's possible. For on thing, there are over a thousand known Egyptian gods... and this does not begin to count the other spirits and guardians that they also believed in.

i know you think it isnt possible.
in fact no one does - that is : from the cough 'official translations'.
But they was completely Off, and Blind.

..the real way to translate hieroglyphs is from right to left - -- no one did that before.
[on purpose or not - i leave that to you...]

the entire egypt pantheon... is like a 'photo-negative' of everything of scripture.
I realize few like to hear that [for unsustained reasons though - since egypt is supposed to be 'mysterious' - but mostly because many cherish an unfounded Dislike of scripture [now i wonder "who" will cause that...? ]

but it's true -
all of them 'gods' have solemly scripture-related attributes.
The context is important here : like vedic Vishnu is Anubis, because the same attributes, you can trace back every pantheon in this world's religions to ancient egypt --- the *only one apart from all those same masks* is scripture.

Horus f.e is called in the coffinTexts "the son of the adamite soul ; but he [the latter] does not know that".
it is black on white inthere.
...just the corrupt 'translations' and false contexts [in translating] never showed.

..there are not 'thousands of gods' though.... but many depict exact the same - just with different attributes ;
but the entire spells are 1 victory-chant "about them having stolen adamite aspects -- to glue upon their ape-sons"

..i understand so well DI that it isnt easy
i admire that you study it as you said
- so did i

and it's tough to have one need to change his worldvieuw
- but so had i
and so can you and many who will wake up from this presented Dualistic ruled world

it is about two mutually exclusive Realms
the egyptian one, are those, who Vampire upon adamite ---
hence their quote [in CofT*] " we / rejected / the Dew / of Eden"

they KNOW that they keep Adam imprisoed :
they TELL about it

..they TELL about "their father Cain" , QÃN in glyphs,
whose [eden aspects - remember, he was a wayward son !] they use to make THEIR present advanced body ;
and leave US with their created [!] # dumb and deaf body

..they tell that honey

in every BD, CT, PT and Amtuat

you
was the reason i re-signed up
not cause i care to nkow else or better
but cause
i fought with the themes just like you

and saw They LIE to us

a reply to: loNeNLI
Before you go off on that translation thing, maybe I should tell you that you're talking to a person (Byrd) that can read hieroglyphs.
Secondly, you are utterly absurd when you say things like "..the real way to translate hieroglyphs is from right to left - -- no one did that before. [on purpose or not - i leave that to you...] "

There are people here at ATS that read that and died laughing because they know that hieroglyphs are written left-right, right-left, up-down and down-up.

You betray a deep ignorance concerning this subject matter. Consider this when posting in the future.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: loNeNLI
Before you go off on that translation thing, maybe I should tell you that you're talking to a person (Byrd) that can read hieroglyphs.
Secondly, you are utterly absurd when you say things like "..the real way to translate hieroglyphs is from right to left - -- no one did that before. [on purpose or not - i leave that to you...] "

There are people here at ATS that read that and died laughing because they know that hieroglyphs are written left-right, right-left, up-down and down-up.

You betray a deep ignorance concerning this subject matter. Consider this when posting in the future.

Harte

yes love.
well he couldnt know how to read them, how could he ?
he was taught the wrong way.
no-one untill now has 'read hieroglyphs right' ...since they didnt understand it was a transcript of Sorcery -- of two opposite realms.

They hád to use that - in order to 'transform' [kheper] the adamite aspects to their realm.

oh and are there people who died laughing about it ?
from Ignorance ?

ignorance ?

realpyramidtexts.net

...your choice to be Ignorant -- or not love.

just please, next time,

first know your opponent, you talk to on ATS.


So you prevent making yourself a Fool. Okay.
No one wants that.

..fyi honey,

i didnt receive ONE mail back from all them canaanite [KAM glyph, cain-bloodline]
institutions nor scholars

..not upon request for genuine transliterations,
not about the problem of left-to-right or else,
not about the request to any texts but the [hardly] available ;

they Lie to you.
to you ALL.

and you, ignorant as you are,
accuse me of ignorance ????

i didnt mean it personal okay.
i understand it s tough.
but
you war against their decades of indoctrination

and this here
is a Legal war
meaning -- if you will understand their Lies, you will win

i m bloody serious
cause such is the nature of Spells

..they so Lied to you
and They watch you all squirming on this forum
cause you dont know the Truth

...we are "in their Zoo - earth"
they TELL that [many CoffinTextSpells]

and they feed upon us -- being in their solarplane [SEKHET ÁARU]

they created this earth above it's original position,
calling it 'this 2nd sky of earth'
--exactly scripture tells that ! ezekiel ! "Eden - down below"

they tell you,
they STOLE YOUR APPEREANCE
and they STOLE YOUR POWER
they tell you
they F**k EVE
and IMPRISON THE RAGING ADAM

..there are...a million things YOU DO NOT KNOW
cause you NEVER WAS TOLD

cause the descendants of Cain -KAM -
do not want you to know !

quote from spells ?

"backwards / speech / is beautiful"

"admite soul / shall not / know"

a reply to: loNeNLI

...they TELL you love
that they split-off our essence, what we call adamite soul,
from the rest of the gorgious adamite soul,
and let that split-off [T'NEN'T] part be born in théir created physical body

- this blind, dumb body isn't Eden's ?
far from that !

they TELL
that our originals - yours and mine -
are kept in a place s-east of this earth,
in a walled enclosure , SENBT, - solarplane -
and they rotate their serpent coils around that,
burning the heads of óur originals
to create this Fake earth from

years i could go on -
and even i but grasped a bit of it

they TELL you
that their 'solarplane' and 'deep space' is a FAKE
an ILLUSION FOR YOU

...and you wonder honey
why no-one cough ever translated them spells right..?
wouldnt you think,
cause the canaanite/egyptian elite wouldnt want you TO KNOW ?

originally posted by: loNeNLI

originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: loNeNLI
Before you go off on that translation thing, maybe I should tell you that you're talking to a person (Byrd) that can read hieroglyphs.
Secondly, you are utterly absurd when you say things like "..the real way to translate hieroglyphs is from right to left - -- no one did that before. [on purpose or not - i leave that to you...] "

There are people here at ATS that read that and died laughing because they know that hieroglyphs are written left-right, right-left, up-down and down-up.

You betray a deep ignorance concerning this subject matter. Consider this when posting in the future.

Harte

yes love.
well he couldnt know how to read them, how could he ?
he was taught the wrong way.
no-one untill now has 'read hieroglyphs right' ...since they didnt understand it was a transcript of Sorcery -- of two opposite realms.

They hád to use that - in order to 'transform' [kheper] the adamite aspects to their realm.

oh and are there people who died laughing about it ?
from Ignorance ?

ignorance ?

realpyramidtexts.net

...your choice to be Ignorant -- or not love.

Sorry, one other thing I probably should have told you - Byrd's a girl.

Harte

originally posted by: loNeNLI
just please, next time,

first know your opponent, you talk to on ATS.


So you prevent making yourself a Fool. Okay.
No one wants that.

That was my advice to you.
Did you notice, or were you too busy trying to keep THEM from splitting off your essence?

Harte

originally posted by: Byrd
The commonality is that the deity is hawk-headed and a solar deity. We don't (to the best of my knowledge) have all the stories on each of these deities, but they can be quite different. The Edfu story of Horus is very different than the Heliopolis story (the one generally told.) These are "local stories" where every great city had its own version of who Horus was (Horus of Nekhen was, I believe, the earliest one.)

That's the jist of what I am finding too, the Edfu site is quite interesting, and the associations of a sun god with foundry works quite clear, and shared, but, I'm probably showing my ignorance here, Bes is there as expected, given his place at the hearth, but no Ptah? Is that because they represent different time periods and pantheons, or could it have to do with industrial specialisation?

originally posted by: Byrd
It's not really a connection that I see, but...

I'm not looking for connections, I'm just interesting in Horus at the moment...just so you know, I think it still qualifies as on-topic, though I would leave that for you to decide....so, essentially we have covered what he isn't, now we can move on to what he is.

originally posted by: Byrd
As to how he rose to national prominence, it wasn't an instant thing. He was one of the great Ennead of Heliopolis, mentioned in the Pyramid Texts... the deity of one of the large power centers in Egypt. The royal courts were there, and the king's worship followed the Ennead rather than one of the other cosmogenies from the large cities (each had its own pantheon and stories of these pantheons.) Eventually these become the national deities but fragments of the other deities they absorb bring bits of their stories with them.

So it's interesting and complicated.

What about how Horus fits into the symbolism of the unified Egypt. There's the white and red crowns to represent upper and lower Egypt (or vice versa, sorry I should check, but you know which is which), and then Horus, who or what is Horus representing there, do you know?

Also, the Nekhen site, am I misreading/misunderstanding, or does that have an occupation level that has been quantified as Gerzean?

originally posted by: loNeNLI
..the real way to translate hieroglyphs is from right to left - -- no one did that before.
[on purpose or not - i leave that to you...]

Yes, we know they wrote right to left. They also wrote left to right, top to bottom, and occasionally bottom to top and around corners (the Tomb of Senbi is a good example.) They loved writing mirrored text, so on the big columns in the Temple of Edfu and the one at Karnak, you'll see the king''s name and titles written as mirrored images.

For example, in this talatat of Akhenaten...

The writing is right to left in the section to the right of the hieroglyphs of the king and his family. In the section underneath that, where there are two pyramids... the text to the right of the pyramids is written left to right. The text to the left is written right to left.

In the cartouches for the king's name (Neferkheperure-waenre Akhenaten) are written right to left, as is his title above the cartouches ("Son of Aten, Lord of the Two Lands.)

the entire egypt pantheon... is like a 'photo-negative' of everything of scripture.

Including the ithyphallic deity Min, the guardians of the gates of the Underworld, the goddess that is a brick and so forth?

I'm pretty familiar with both the Bible and Egyptian mythology... and I don't see it.

Horus f.e is called in the coffinTexts "the son of the adamite soul ; but he [the latter] does not know that".
it is black on white inthere.

Give me a link to this phrase in the Coffin Texts, please.

originally posted by: Anaana
That's the jist of what I am finding too, the Edfu site is quite interesting, and the associations of a sun god with foundry works quite clear, and shared, but, I'm probably showing my ignorance here, Bes is there as expected, given his place at the hearth, but no Ptah? Is that because they represent different time periods and pantheons, or could it have to do with industrial specialisation?

It's because Edfu is Greek and from the time of the Greek takeover of Egypt. Edfu's in the middle of Egypt, about 400 miles or so from the pyramids and Memphis - where Ptah was seen as the divine creator.

Ptah had been somewhat usurped before the time of the Ptolemys by Re/Amun-Re and became "Amun-Re-Ptah" sometime shortly before the Greek conquest. The Ptolemys used religion as a tool to help craft their personal images and poor old Ptah found himself shoved into the corner along with a lot of other deities.

What about how Horus fits into the symbolism of the unified Egypt. There's the white and red crowns to represent upper and lower Egypt (or vice versa, sorry I should check, but you know which is which), and then Horus, who or what is Horus representing there, do you know?

Horus represents the living ruler of the land. The symbols of "unified Egypt" (in addition to the crowns) are the vulture and the cobra (the "two ladies"), or the papyrus and lotus tied together (often shown as a decorative element, shown also as part of a scene where Hapi the god of the Nile ties the two together...and used in unification proclamations)

Also, the Nekhen site, am I misreading/misunderstanding, or does that have an occupation level that has been quantified as Gerzean?

Nekhen's a far piece from the Gerzean (Fayum) area.