UFOs ‘Official’ History Part 1 : Before the Saucers Came

a reply to: BASSPLYR

This isn't about personalities. This isn't about any of my theories.

You have untested theories which you wont admit are theories.

Now...if you want to discuss particular data points, thats an entirely different matter.

Id be happy to do that sometime....but Rogue One is about to start.



Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Dude!!!! Enjoy Rogue One. Its awesome and youre going to love it!😃

Foo fighters obviously use magnetically contained swirling electrified plasma currents surrounding the starship as an offensive/defensive weapon, not to mention plasma possibly being a fuel source for a photon engine. Plasma shielding protects against space-borne radiation, micro-meteoroids, laser weapons, large explosions near the starship, shrapnel and penetrating missiles that would get lost an lose thrust in the swirling plasma currents --- With enough size and girth too scare the hell out of anybody who is not familiar with such an advanced form of space alien technology.


orbitalvector.com...

This verifies what I'd found on my own, so I'll quote it:

"In the early days of UFOlogy, no one,apparently, considered interpreting the “Battle of Los Angeles” as a UFO event. NICAP’s 1964 Best Evidence document seems to have ignored it. The first mention of it as a UFO event seems to have been made as far back as 1966, when M. A. McCartney wrote a letter to NICAP about a red UFO that did strange aerial maneuvers that night. In the late 1960s, several books included the story at some level "

- Tim Printy from www.astronomyufo.com...

From there. it looks like Brad Steiger ran with it and portrayed it as a UFO story in his 1967 book, “Flying Saucers are Hostile.”

However, it may have been Ray Palmer who got there first. This LIFE magazine article from May 21, 1951, suggests that Palmer connected the story to Deros and the Shaver Mystery.

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: mirageman

Have you seen the original film negative of the 'Battle Over LA' picture that appears on the front page of the newspaper you embedded?

I may have misinterpreted your point. So correct me if I am wrong. But the picture from the original negative is on page 1 in the very first posting. It's here below again to save you checking back.



There is a bit of a story around that as well. The film stock comes from different film than that used by the staff on the LA Times in 1942. The identification notches are different and it seems that negative was possibly 'retouched' as well. See here for info.

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

1870 - Mt. Washington, New Hampshire. This photo is dubbed, "the oldest UFO photograph ever taken." This item was the subject of bidding at Ebay in 2002, when finally the photo was purchased for $385.00 by Samuel M. Sherman, who was the president of Independent-International Pictures Corp.

This was originally a "stereo" photograph. Certainly it was difficult to manipulate photos at that time, and remember, there were no flying objects then; at least, not from this world.

Whilst this is a genuine photo, it is neither a photo of something out of this world,or even a flying object. It's some kind of measuring or hiking instrument buried in snow.

See HI-Res Version of the photo

For the full explanation see : The Oldest Known UFO Photo Refuted.

Now I don't think many people who pass this off as genuine are aware that the provenance proves beyond reasonable doubt it is not the oldest known UFO photo. They are just unaware that the evidence is available to support that it isn't.

a reply to: mirageman

Hey mirageman. Excellent thread and work as always.

I have a question regarding the battle of la.
I remember reading that some claimed japanese aircraft were shotdown in the long beach area and that the govt and press kept it under wraps to prevent panic. I can go either way on it. But i wanted to know your thoughts regarding that rumor. If its already been mentioned in the thread before my apologies.

Theres a city park in long beach where the korean friendship bell stands (very pretty bell btw) the park used to be an anti aircraft artillary battery and the pillboxes and cannons are still there. I remember standing there one time and wondering if these were some of the cannons firing at the intruders that night and what they must have seen.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Sorry if this makes you repeat yourself. I'm full of festive cheer and still catching up with this thread.

Most of us do not have the time, or inclination, to look into research papers on various scientific disciplines. So for the sake of the casual readers of the thread (and me) can you sum it up in laymen's terms what you think 'may' have been going on to explain the foo fighters.

The reason I ask is that if the foo fighters were some kind of new weapon then they don't seem to have advanced into anything more dangerous than a distraction for pilots. So do you think they were just a by-product of other technologies being developed?

a reply to: mirageman

Absolutely.

Ill explain it in detail.

Right now im at the charlotte airport and about to takeoff ( airplane mode on phone) and fly home back to LA from visiting family. Ill type it out for you when i land.

It will be a lengthy post and take some time but no problem. Give me a few hours. It should make for a good candidate for foo fighters when youre done reading it.

Bedlam or zaph if you dont want me going into this subject let me know please since it deals with ECM. If either of you are reading this.

a reply to: CardDown

Thanks for that CardDown. That gives a bit more background to the seeds of the Battle of LA as a UFO story.

I suppose due to all the confusion of war this really was a a UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) in the pure sense of the term. Although what that UFO was may never be known.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

.....I remember reading that some claimed japanese aircraft were shotdown in the long beach area and that the govt and press kept it under wraps to prevent panic.

There were reporrts of a downed aircraft yes. Although it wasn't necessarily confirmed as Japanese.


Source : LA Examiner 1942

This Canadian TV production "UFOs Declassified" did some digging into the case and speculates that the crash may have been some form of US experimental aircraft possibly from Muroc/Edwards AFB. (There's also more about the LA Times photo in it as well). But aviation history scholar Peter Merlin also states it very unlikely anything would have been tested over central LA at that time.



For those interested in the more 'conspiratorial' stories surrounding the Battle of LA as well though take a look at this document : www.ufocasebook.com...

a reply to: mirageman

It's threads like this that got me into ATS to start with. Good work sir. I doth my cap to you..

originally posted by: mirageman

As well as reports from the other Scandinavian countries, the Ghost rockets were also reported from Hungary, Greece, Morocco and Portugal.

Great thread mate and as well as those countries there were reports from France, Italy, Belgium and India as well -Serbsta also made a thread a while back (link) and apparently witnesses numbered in their tens of thousands and 'many described luminous cigar type objects which gave off no vapour trail and were completely silent - the objects were reported to be seen in formation, breaking formation, maneuvering and hovering'.

And let's not forget the U.S. Secretary of State reporting alien bodies in a Capitol building in 1939!


Thread


All the best for the new year!

Not all unidentified's in WW2 were of the ''Foo'' variety, for example this report from project 1947:

Cylindrical object over Germany - 26th/27th May, 1943

On the night of the 26th/27th May, 1943 RAF Sgt. Pilot G. N. Cockcroft from Bradford, West Yorkshire, then based at RAF Little Rissington, Gloucestershire, (No. 6 (P) AFU Pilots Advanced Flying Unit), found himself seconded to No. 77 Squadron 4 Group Bomber Commando, stationed at Elvington, near York, taking part in an air marking raid over Essen, Germany, which involved dropping incendiaries on the target by the lead Bombers to illuminate the target.

“The first wave had already bombed the general target area - now well alight. Two or three minutes before our final run in, at approximately 18, 700ft, we saw in front but slightly to port, at about the same height, a long cylindrical object, silver/gold in colour, very sharply defined, hanging in the sky at an angle of approximately 45 degrees, showing a number of evenly spaced portholes along its length.

The first person to sight the object was Sgt. Pilot Ray Smith, of the Royal Canadian Air Force:

“I think the first reaction of most of us was amazement because the object just had no right to be there. After a very short space of time, about 20-30 seconds, it suddenly began to move and, retaining its altitude, climbed rapidly until it vanished from sight. The speed it attained seemed to us completely incredible, moving at thousands of miles per hour. As it accelerated, the outline became more blurred and the shape foreshortened. The size is more difficult to judge but it was very large, certainly much bigger that our own aircraft, appearing at least as long as a ‘king sized cigarette,' or small cigar at arms length, we then completed out bomb run and returned to base. The intelligence officer debriefing us was given a description of the object but we were unable to judge what importance was attached to it and quite frankly it was just another unusual phenomenon, which since apparently harmless was of far less importance that other wartime hazards.”


As an aside, both my grandfathers were Bomber Command aircrew on ops during WW2, and although they really didn't talk about it much, just consider the seriousness of what they and crews like the above were dealing with. life and death on a nightly basis, little chance of making stupid observations

www.project1947.com...

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: BASSPLYR

Sorry if this makes you repeat yourself. I'm full of festive cheer and still catching up with this thread.

Most of us do not have the time, or inclination, to look into research papers on various scientific disciplines. So for the sake of the casual readers of the thread (and me) can you sum it up in laymen's terms what you think 'may' have been going on to explain the foo fighters.

The reason I ask is that if the foo fighters were some kind of new weapon then they don't seem to have advanced into anything more dangerous than a distraction for pilots. So do you think they were just a by-product of other technologies being developed?

"don't seem to have advanced into anything more dangerous than a distraction for pilots"

I wish that were true --- But my own eyewitness account of a foo fighter might tend to refute that --- Though I can't prove it --- I can give you a guesstimation of the size of the second foo fighter sighting I had that night in 76 --- The first one...was a rectangular bluish-white light, going at tremendous speed from the direction of Washington D.C., heading west above the low thin cloud cover --- [One minute later] The second...was an extremely large [700 feet in diameter?] reddish-orange ball of plasma that appeared before our eyes when it made a slow [30 mph?] perpendicular descent from the low thin cloud cover towards earth; about 1 mile away and disappeared behind the mountain range it front of us facing east.

It lit up the whole eastern sky and the mountain valley below us. With my arm extended: big as my fist. It looked like a miniature sun, only reddish-orange; looking as big as a setting full moon at the horizon --- No fiery tail...yet flames licking all around the fiery spherical orb, swirling plasma currents --- Which makes me hypothesize that this foo fighter has the potential of being a weapon of mass destruction, with the ability to magnetically spew out thousands of tons of electrified fusion plasma at targets of there choice. It was easy to look at, but 1 mile away was close enough for me...though I never went back to investigate the burnt out landing zone of the foo fighter --- But about 1 year later I went to investigate an photograph another foo fighter landing zone, on the outskirts of Fawn Grove, Pennsylvania; that featured a burnt out area in a grassy field along with three tripod landing marks in the center.

a reply to: Bloatis123

Since it was a night raid...I assume that the UFO was lit-up in appearance, which would probably classify it as a "foo fighter."

a reply to: Bloatis123

Not all unidentified's in WW2 were of the ''Foo'' variety, for example this report from project 1947:

Yes indeed. Good find. These sightings are actually more interesting than the balls of light.

As an aside, both my grandfathers were Bomber Command aircrew on ops during WW2, and although they really didn't talk about it much, just consider the seriousness of what they and crews like the above were dealing with. life and death on a nightly basis, little chance of making stupid observations

They were indeed dealing with life and death every time they took to the air.. I suspect that the air crews were most concerned by anything posing an immediate threat to them. The post-war mindset about 'flying saucers' was still to come and so many 'interesting accounts' from the war are probably lost forever. Although there may well be something hidden away in as yet unread and unreleased documentation.

a reply to: Erno86

".....don't seem to have advanced into anything more dangerous than a distraction for pilots"

Yes - from the first reported sightings during 1941the 'foo' fighters, although disconcerting did not appear to threaten Allied aircraft. So if they were a 'weapon' under development then nothing seems to have changed by 1945. They did not attack our aircraft. At least I am not aware of any account where that happened.

Whilst I understand your own experience is very puzzling to you I was asking BASSPLYR for a quick synopsis of what he thinks may have caused the 'foo' during the war. Other technologies, like nuclear weapons, the V-1/2 and even jet engines, had all been developed and seen progress by the end of WWII. The foo fighters still seemed to be lights following aircraft. Your sighting in 1976 was 31 years after the war ended and doesn't really fit into the subjects and time lines of original post.

a reply to: mirageman

No??? But it still was a foo fighter that I witnessed --- imho --- Which would prove that this sort of alien aerial technology is still in operation way passed WWII, and must be a force that we might probably have to reckon with in the foreseeable future; if not reverse technology these foo fighters --- Which is probably already being done with our superpowers across the globe, with the science of plasma shields.

a reply to: Erno86

OK well my point was more about if 'foo' was a German/Japanese weapon under development. I didn't mention alien technology. I think we are at cross purposes.

I suggest we wait to read what BASSPLYR has to say about the 'foo'.