Trump calls for F-18 run off against F-35

www.businessinsider.com...

I think this is mainly a cost issue. A look at how many aircraft can satisfy the needs of the airforce to do its mission. I know that this will be insanely controversial, but once again I sort of do find it odd - no matter what potential the f-35 has - in putting all combat needs in one aircraft.

Also, there is some back speak into the thought that good ol Dick Cheney made this happen. In a deal to make his Lockheed pals get a monopoly. Thus cutting Boeing out. Not sure of that conspiracy too much, but it does seem rather par for course when it comes to Cheney. And word is that the Trump people sort of dislike the Cheney/Bush people.

Interesting!

There's always the experienced pilots angle, which can become quite dynamic all things considered. But I'm not too wise on all that atm so wont pretend to be.

Things will be different with Trump in office.

He's a business man ... not a lawyer.

The aircraft arm of the Military Industrial Complex has been ripping us off for so long no one knows what's even real anymore where costs are concerned.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see a major change in the names of who shows up on what contracts before Trump's out of office. And I'm talking new names ... not some shuffle.

a reply to: Fools

This is just another attempt at getting costs down. There are so many things wrong with this idea. First, the Super Hornet can't be made to do all the things the F-35 currently can, let alone what it will eventually be able to do. Second, the Air Force isn't going to buy the Super Hornet, and this would screw the Marines so bad it's not funny. It would totally eliminate their STOVL capability. Third, if they started now, and were able to get a Super Hornet even close to what the F-35 could do, it would be at least another 10 years before it reached IOC, let alone FOC. So we'd be at least 10 years behind where we are now.

What makes it so funny is that they just announced that LRIP 9 costs are down 5.5%, and 1.2% for the A and B, over LRIP 8. That's 60% lower than LRIP 1 for the A. It's dropped with almost every LRIP buy, and will continue dropping as they add more aircraft.

a reply to: Snarl

When you're talking about aircraft that are basically rewriting the book when it comes to capabilities, then yeah, you're going to have some high costs involved. The F-15 was considered expensive when it was developed, and it only cost $15M to begin with. That was over 6 times the cost of the F-4, which was only 10-12 years old at the time the F-15 was entering service.

How is Trump going to be the Commander and Chief of are military? He isn't even in the White House and he is already screwing with USAF procurement which already has many issues. First the VC-25, now the F-35 and what next KC-46 or B-21?

Trump is pitting these defense contractors against each other which creates competition. Of course a company will over charge if there isn't any competition or if the contract is simply pushed through. It's about time we had a POTUS with some business savvy.

I wonder though, with the potential threats that we actually have, wouldn't it be better to have a blended approach? I can see F-22's in the background, maybe as like viper awacs. then they work with new versions of f-15c's to control the airspace. possibly negating the need for awacs. Then in CAS, the f-35s come in, destroying all SAMs in the arena, followed by serous cheaper air superiority.

Maybe the US could buy Su-35's?

:-)

Anyway, I have always like the mix better than the smug.

a reply to: Pyle

Probably the B-21. There have been a few issues getting some things right I've heard, so I'm sure once he finds out about that he'll be all over it.

He can talk all he want, but he can't arbitrarily kill a program for another. He can tell Congress he wants to, but that's about it.

originally posted by: Konduit
Trump is pitting these defense contractors against each other which creates competition. Of course a company will over charge if there isn't any competition or if the contract is simply pushed through. It's about time we had a POTUS with some business savvy.

That would work if the contract was still being bid on and/or someone had a viable replacement (no one does currently).

a reply to: Fools

The F-35 and F-22 will be used in a sensor/shooter role. The F-35 gathers more information than any other aircraft ever designed anywhere in the world. The two will make a formidable team.

a reply to: Zaphod58

But seriously is there a point where their technology could be overwhelmed by numbers? i think that is the greatest fear. It definitely is for me.

a reply to: Fools

Any aircraft can sometimes be overwhelmed by numbers, but the F-35 is the first aircraft that pilots can honestly say, and be right, that if you are forced into an air to air fight you didn't brief for, or have on the mission plan, you screwed up.

The amount of information the F-35 pulls in is staggering. They have to develop a new datalink system to transmit to other aircraft, because if they use existing datalink systems, the packets are so huge it slows down to their equivalent of a dial up modem.

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: Zaphod58

But seriously is there a point where their technology could be overwhelmed by numbers? i think that is the greatest fear. It definitely is for me.

Any system no matter how advanced or primitive you can always be over run if the enemy has enough troops. Currently no Air Force has enough to overwhelm us in a full scale war.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Snarl

When you're talking about aircraft that are basically rewriting the book when it comes to capabilities, then yeah, you're going to have some high costs involved. The F-15 was considered expensive when it was developed, and it only cost $15M to begin with. That was over 6 times the cost of the F-4, which was only 10-12 years old at the time the F-15 was entering service.

Excellent Point overlooked by many.

P-51 Mustang Unit cost was $50k, F-86 was $250k, F4 Phantom was $2.5 million, F-15A was $15 million.

Anyone else see a pattern?

a reply to: Fools

Trump thinks it is a beauty pageant. he is way out of his depth, as usual.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Fools

Trump thinks it is a beauty pageant. he is way out of his depth, as usual.

That is silly.

Regardless, I remember years ago being on the lsd edge and watching a movie with your avatar and being intrigued.
Who is that actress?

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Fools

Trump thinks it is a beauty pageant. he is way out of his depth, as usual.

If it's usual for him to be out of his depth, why does he keep winning?

For someone is is supposedly so clueless and stupid, he has saved money on Air Force One, brought over 50000 jobs and now no doubt will save money on the F-35

originally posted by: xstealth

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Fools

Trump thinks it is a beauty pageant. he is way out of his depth, as usual.

If it's usual for him to be out of his depth, why does he keep winning?

For someone is is supposedly so clueless and stupid, he has saved money on Air Force One, brought over 50000 jobs and now no doubt will save money on the F-35

He didn't save any money on the VC-25 replacement. Boeing said if the Air Force wanted it built cheaper they would but the Air Force would have to change the requirements.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Fools

Trump thinks it is a beauty pageant. he is way out of his depth, as usual.

That is silly.

Regardless, I remember years ago being on the lsd edge and watching a movie with your avatar and being intrigued.
Who is that actress?

That is not silly, Trump is way out of his depth.

The actress is Natasha Richardson (rip, died young after a skiing accident) in the movie version of The Handmaid's Tale.