A controversial new gravity hypothesis has passed its first test

Verlinde's hypothesis of gravity was first proposed back in 2010 but they just got around to being able to make the first step to validate the theory. By studying 33,000 distant galaxies and using Verlinde's figures it was found that there was NO NEED FOR DARK MATTER to make what they were observing make sense. IMO this really could be a big deal for the scientific community if further proof comes forward.

The team, led by Margot Brouwer, looked at the distribution of matter in more than 33,000 galaxies, and said that what they say could indeed be explained without dark matter if they used Verlinde's hypothesis of gravity.

Testing this involved studying something called gravitational lensing - the way galaxies closer to us bend the light of more distant galaxies. This is a well-established way of measuring the amount of dark matter in galaxies.

But the team found that if they just factored in Verlinde's modified gravity, then their results made sense without them having to add in the idea of dark matter.

"The dark matter model actually fits slightly better with the data than Verlinde’s prediction," Brouwer told New Scientist. "But then if you mathematically factor in the fact that Verlinde’s prediction doesn’t have any free parameters, whereas the dark matter prediction does, then you find Verlinde’s model is actually performing slightly better."

www.sciencealert.com...

a reply to: 727Sky

That old saying "'Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy" springs to mind.

End of the day through without an understanding of what dark matter/energy actually comprises, 95% of the universe will remain unknown to us.

a reply to: 727Sky

Awesome topic, I love seeing space topics. I think like most of us it's fascinated me since childhood...

It has occurred to me in the past that perhaps dark matter is really the Science of the Gaps, much akin to a Scientific version of the God of the Gaps but pertaining only to measuring the vastness of space.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: 727Sky

That old saying "'Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy" springs to mind.

End of the day through without an understanding of what dark matter/energy actually comprises, 95% of the universe will remain unknown to us.

It's incredibly likely Dark matter is the same as standard matter, it's just on the opposite side of space time, so it's not possible to inspect and identify.


The reason it's significant is because despite being on the opposite side of spacetime, it has gravitational effects on our Universe, and this is normally what is interesting about the energy relationship.


Imagine the space time canvas, with sinkholes to represent gravity. Dark matter is just an upward protrusion in the fabric from the other side, rather than sinking from an object resting ontop of it.

If you were to travel to this 'other side', the gravitational effects of the standard matter in our Universe would have upward protrusion like dark matter has in ours.

a reply to: imjack

Certainly a most interesting subject to ponder.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes mind blowing indeed. Especially because there is supposedly 'more stuff' on the other side than this one.

But hey Dark matter is cool ! So it must exist

originally posted by: frenchfries
But hey Dark matter is cool ! So it must exist

It does exist, the real question is the origin of matter and what side of spacetime is leaking matter into the other.

Somewhere, some mathematician is pulling his hair out, it does not exist, then it does, then it does not, then it does...

Does this mean we can finally ship the power elites, disaster capitalists, authoritarians, banksters, spies, warhawks, international crime syndicate operators, close minded cancer doctor pragmatists, bureaucrats, hedge fund managers, derivatives power brokers, Wall Street speculators, and the rest of the unethical sociopaths off to some other planet now?

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Nope, it means Dark Matter is harder to prove than air. You would have to have simultaneous measurements from opposite sides of space time.

Not that Quantum isn't probably working on this;

Wasn't it Trump supporters who wanted to go to the Moon and make a colony? And he just cut EPA funding for "Space"?

So the mission is actually to launch people off in coffins like garbage? I like it.

a reply to: imjack

I agree sooo many scientists cant be wrong, and the theory of gravity is complete ... Matter is created out of energy so that's the origin isn't it ?

pollex in da sky for U Didn't know that spacetime had different sides googling for that now. Science is so cool.

a reply to: imjack

Well can we at least stuff David Rockefellar & George Soros into a SpaceX rocket and blast them off into the cosmos?

They can take all the space ice cream they could want with them

a reply to: 727Sky

Can Bed or Arb explain Verlindes theory please?

a reply to: imjack

Wasn't it anti Trump people who blatantly propose sh!t like this... to suppose that crap like this should mix with political positions???? yeah i mean you..

originally posted by: jappee
a reply to: imjack

Wasn't it anti Trump people who blatantly propose sh!t like this... to suppose that crap like this should mix with political positions???? yeah i mean you..

Can we not have one discussion on here without bringing US Politics into it? It's getting really, really boring now....

a reply to: djz3ro

That was where i was heading. I don't believe dark matter has anything to do with politics..

a reply to: djz3ro

When I first posted I hadn't realized that taking offense to being anti: power elites, disaster capitalists, authoritarians, banksters, spies, warhawks, international crime syndicate operators, close minded cancer doctor pragmatists, bureaucrats, hedge fund managers, derivatives power brokers, Wall Street speculators was all to be taken offense to by anti-Trump forces. Had I realized that would create a partisan war, that people would defend all that stuff, I'd have instead just did a prayer post for dark matter to get down here and swallow us all.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: jappee
a reply to: imjack

Can we not have one discussion on here without bringing US Politics into it? It's getting really, really boring now....

The good news is it will be over tomorrow as far as Trump being POTUS; unless a big bad surprise happens.. Then we will be entertained until mid January with all the losers trying to start crap about the new POTUS before he even takes office.. They will not give up ....promise.

What I found interesting about the theory is how gravity acts more like temperature than what was believed before.

"His suggestion is that gravity isn't a fundamental force of nature at all, but rather an emergent phenomenon - just like temperature is an emergent phenomenon that arises from the movement of microscopic particles.

In other words, gravity is a side effect, not the cause, of what's happening in the Universe."

www.sciencealert.com...

So Verlinde decided to look at the problem another way. If we only proposed dark matter to make up for an inconsistency with gravity, then maybe the issue isn't dark matter at all - maybe the problem is that we don't really understand how gravity works.

Dark matter isn't the only gravitational inconsistency, either. The Standard Model of physics - the best set of formulae we have to explain how the Universe works - doesn't explain the effects of gravity.

And gravity and other general relativity theories famously don't gel with our understanding of quantum mechanics, which has led researchers to seek out a new 'theory of everything' that bridges the two.

But Verlinde has taken a different approach, by taking gravity out of the picture altogether. His suggestion is that gravity isn't a fundamental force of nature at all, but rather an emergent phenomenon - just like temperature is an emergent phenomenon that arises from the movement of microscopic particles.

In other words, gravity is a side effect, not the cause, of what's happening in the Universe.

My Pop is an old genius research scientist. He will be 90 in a few days. I went to him long ago and questioned him about gravity. His answer surprised me. He discussed a couple theories, but He said we don't really know. Him not having an in depth answer really surprised me.
I will have to ask him his opinion on this one