You can be fined $250,000 for not calling people ‘ze’ or ‘hir,’ pronouns if they demand

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I'd be willing to bet you could go through your whole life in NYC and never have a situation come up like this.

You don't get out much do you?

originally posted by: RickinVa

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".

Or here's a thought: you could politely ask. To hell with manners, though, right?

Sure comes up all the time when I meet new people. First thing I ask is do you have a penis or a vagina.

Yeah, that's not what I meant. Ask them if they prefer Ms. or Mr.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: kaylaluv

Hey if you miss the target, "penis or vagina" I guess you can always say, "sorry I can to tell what the hell you are".

in that case you call them "Pat".
en.wikipedia.org...(Saturday_Night_Live)

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ColdWisdom

How is it confusing people? If they live in every way as a female, you would not know they had a penis unless you looked in their underwear.

Drag queens may or may not live in every way as a female. Most just dress up sometimes and the rest of the time live as the other gender. Drag queens are not the issue here.

If they tell you they are female, and they have a female name and they dress as a female all the time, it would be gracious to refer to them as female. You don't need to know whether they have their original plumbing or not. Some are waiting for the right time to have the surgery, some are afraid of having the surgery, some are content with living as a female in every other way. It's really none of your business what they have in their underwear. If they tell you they are female, and they have a female name, and they dress as a female all the time, refer to them a female.

Granted. Then, which pronoun would you use in that case? There are numerous ones to choose from still.

LOL What?

That won't happen. I have a hard enough time remember if someone is Mrs or Ms.

We don't have the problem here in Nevada.

I am IMAGINED KLINGON warlord so ALL SHOULD pronounce "LORD" before my glorious fictious name with the SAME practical AUTHORITY...
offend ME and I can kill you it's my CULTURAL belief now....well SOME any way...ain't gonna just DIE without a DAMN good reason for it....


CAN'T wait to drag some poor sepcieist into court....

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I'd be willing to bet you could go through your whole life in NYC and never have a situation come up like this.

You don't get out much do you?

I get out enough. I live in Austin, the paradise of liberal-ness in a foul sea of conservatives. We have a lot of gay and trans people living here. I have gay and trans friends. None of them have ever demanded I call them ze or zir or hir or glugga or anything like that. Not to say it won't happen, but I'd probably have a better chance of winning the powerball lottery.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ColdWisdom

How is it confusing people? If they live in every way as a female, you would not know they had a penis unless you looked in their underwear.

Drag queens may or may not live in every way as a female. Most just dress up sometimes and the rest of the time live as the other gender. Drag queens are not the issue here.

If they tell you they are female, and they have a female name and they dress as a female all the time, it would be gracious to refer to them as female. You don't need to know whether they have their original plumbing or not. Some are waiting for the right time to have the surgery, some are afraid of having the surgery, some are content with living as a female in every other way. It's really none of your business what they have in their underwear. If they tell you they are female, and they have a female name, and they dress as a female all the time, refer to them a female.

why should it even matter? If a dude looks like a dude, I'll refer to him as "sir" if she appears to be a female, "Mrs." and if I can't tell, I'd just as soon smile and walk away. But if someone tells me they are going to sue me for not addressing them properly, I'm going to laugh. A lot. First off it's ignorant. Second, I haven't got anything to sue for. So with lots of wasted effort, you might get a set of old golf clubs that don't hit very well anymore.

a reply to: Krakatoa

I think that 99.99999999999% of the time, "she" and "her" will do quite well for a transgender female. For that .00000000001% of the time it won't, you could avoid personal pronouns and just use their name. Again, if you think you are going to come across a lot of ze's and zir's in your life, you'd better run out and buy your powerball tickets, cuz you got a much better chance than anyone else of winning.

Honestly, I have met some individuals who just don't look like the average gender identity. Embarrassingly, I have apologized, but internally, am questioning...really? I have no clue if they have a penis or vagina...how would one? Politeness just means I take their word for it. Honestly, it is none of my business...personally.

I understand that this law is to confront bully hatism issues, but I have to agree that too often in history...we have seen that making a big deal out of something, usually backfires. The focus is not on the issue at hand but on limiting others speech and freedoms of expression by punishment...makes many only focus on the punishment aspect.

Education and repetition of expectations is more effective with general populace rather than infringing or making them feel like they no longer have a voice. Just my 2 cents.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Krakatoa

I think that 99.99999999999% of the time, "she" and "her" will do quite well for a transgender female. For that .00000000001% of the time it won't, you could avoid personal pronouns and just use their name. Again, if you think you are going to come across a lot of ze's and zir's in your life, you'd better run out and buy your powerball tickets, cuz you got a much better chance than anyone else of winning.

An d in that small chance, there is the risk of being sued. Yeah, that is real tolerant of them.

SMFH

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: kaylaluv

Then that isn't really a legit transition? Is it?

Drag queens don't tell people they've 'transitioned' because they dress up like women.

If you're going to say you've 'transitioned' it should imply that you've had the reassignment surgery. If they haven't then they are just confusing people and making it harder for society to accept trans folk.

The difference between drag queens and transwomen are that drag queens are actually men, inside and out. Traswomen most often suffered from an in utero hormone bath screw up and live with gender dysphoria. They "transition" simply to make their body match their sex/gender.

Biologically, humans have several markers that identify the sex. Genitalia and chromosomes are but two of several and chromosomes are among the least reliable. People often don't take into account hormones and secondary sexual characteristics. So when somebody narrows sex and gender down to what their genitalia is shaped like or even what their chromosomes are, they are ignoring the majority of biological distinctions.

But just to be safe, if you suspect a woman in front of you may have been assigned something different at birth but she's dressed like a woman, just say "she". You'll be using the correct pronoun in one case but not offend. You won't offend drag queens (normally) by this, either, because they'll likely be in drag in that moment... which most drag queens are cool with.

Nobody is truly confused by this. Mean-spirited people will pretend to be confused but they aren't. Unless they are just super duper dense. Because it's not confusing to just call somebody what they want to be called.

originally posted by: Abysha
Mean-spirited people will pretend to be confused but they aren't. Unless they are just super duper dense.

It's not mean spirited!
Would you consider the way you seem happy to interchange drag queens with transvestites as if they are the same thing, mean spirited.

You can call people ignorant, that will always be true. But you can't automatically assign hatred to ignorance.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: Abysha
Mean-spirited people will pretend to be confused but they aren't. Unless they are just super duper dense.

It's not mean spirited!
Would you consider the way you seem happy to interchange drag queens with transvestites as if they are the same thing, mean spirited.

You can call people ignorant, that will always be true. But you can't automatically assign hatred to ignorance.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to transfolk and drag queens in an interchangeable way. Quite the opposite, I was pointing out the distinction.

The "mean spirited" comment referred to people pretending to be confused about using the correct pronouns. There's several on this thread. "Woah, there... I can only accept what I have already known about so this new fangled liberal bs about respecting people is just sooooo confuuuuuusing..." That kind of sentiment is what I was talking about. Calling somebody by the pronouns they are presenting as is not confusing. If they are presenting totally androgynous? Just ask. Again, not confusing. Same as calling somebody Frank or Linda. Not confusing to ask.


ps edit - I just realized you said "drag queens" and "transvestites". Those are the same thing, by the way.

Darling works well.

But you don't have to call me darling, darling.

Hon or Honey works too.

Boss, dude, hoss.

Herr? Ze? sounds pretty nazi to me.

Here's the thing. I've had my business open for 3 years and never once called a human being "Mr ...." "Mrs...." or "Ms..."

It never comes up. I usually use first names or just start talking to them like I know them. People love me, my customer retention is amazing. I'm still not sure where the issue is?

originally posted by: Abysha
I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to transfolk and drag queens in an interchangeable way. Quite the opposite, I was pointing out the distinction.

No, I understood you. You just haven't realised your mistake yet.

It doesn't matter anyway.
All this progressive crap will collapse under the weight of itself soon enough.
There's just too many variables.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Krakatoa

I think that 99.99999999999% of the time, "she" and "her" will do quite well for a transgender female. For that .00000000001% of the time it won't, you could avoid personal pronouns and just use their name. Again, if you think you are going to come across a lot of ze's and zir's in your life, you'd better run out and buy your powerball tickets, cuz you got a much better chance than anyone else of winning.

An d in that small chance, there is the risk of being sued. Yeah, that is real tolerant of them.

SMFH

There is a much bigger chance of being sued if you accidentally step on someone's foot on the subway. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. You are trying to make this like trans people are a bunch of vicious litigious monsters, looking for any excuse to make your life hell. Believe me, there are a lot more cisgender people out there like that. I'd be losing sleep over them instead.

originally posted by: Abysha
ps edit - I just realized you said "drag queens" and "transvestites". Those are the same thing, by the way.

hahahaha, you're supposed to edit to undo mistakes.

originally posted by: jonnywhite
I read an article recently about trasgenders and he described how on one day he brokedown emotionally after being called "her" several times.

I read a article somewhere that those are sjw attention whoring drama queens that have mental breakdowns because they accidentally saw a image of the confederate flag.


And no i am not joking.