Stonewall Jackson's view of slavery.

I'm a big military history buff..all history really but military espeacially. Well, I recently landed on the civil war after seeing a "top 25 military commanders in history" that included both Nathan Bedford Forrest and Stonwall Jackson (ps they were both stud commanders who deserve their spots).

Well when looking up stonewall I ran into an account of his opinion of slavery that was kinda hard to wrap your head around.

We have all heard the normal Schtick where people believed Africans were inferior, but his was remarkably different.

See stonewall was a very devout Christian.. and not in the normal armchair sense, he actually believed it. Believed it as much as some Muslim terrorist suicide bomber or the crazies that slowly watch their kids die while attempting to faith heal their children.

Like would jump off a bridge if he thought god wanted him to, believed it.

Well appearently he believed slavery was ordained by God, but not in the "white mans right to rule way." He believed that God periodically would put his chosen people into bondage, but That his chosen people changed as god willed it.

This century it might be the Jews, next the romans and during his period, it was Africans.

Kinda like as if the south were to lose and the southern whites were to be enslaved. He, Stonewall himself would dutifully serve his master...as was gods plan.

For context he also believed that you were ordered by god to treat your slaves as family. That it was a blasphemy to abuse them. Hell, your people might be ordained unto bondage next.

To him his crowning achievement off the battlefield was a slave school he had started.. and this pre civil war. He died from driendly fire mid war.




Maybe it is because I'm not religious, but I just found it facinating. If you actually believe in Christianity then it makes a weird kinda sense.

While as human beings in reality we know that giving humans total control of other humans has almost always begun and ended in atrocities.

He always felt bad about fighting the 1st battle of bull run on a Sunday. So to get around it, in his mind, he would pick another day during the week to be his Sunday. So if he knew he was going on a hard march under orders that would make him work on a Sunday, he would pick a day after that to be his Sunday and he wouldn't do anything but read his bible.

Chancellorsville was when he got shot. it was after he rolled up the Federal's flank. Lee was highly outnumbered and thanks to Jackson, he was able to push them back. Jackson's last words were "let us rest under the shade of the tree."

Christianity has misinterpreted slavery too, getting it from the verses somewhere implying that, ...in 'Heaven', those that are first shall be last, i.e., reversed role sort of thing.

There are other verses used to 'justify' slavery. Not really calling it slavery, but thats the rub. Many churchians have developed a stylized view: You can serve me now or serve me in the afterlife.

Bible Hub search result

Wot a religious nutter.

one story says that he was such a devout Christian that he would not fight, maneuver his troops or even have supplies brought to the army on sunday`s unless it was unavoidable.

another story says that he actually preferred to fight on sunday`s because he believed God would be looking over him and ensure he would be victorious in battle that day.

one thing is for sure, he was a very devout Christian,moreso than many other confederate commanders who were also very devout Christians.

Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

originally posted by: LifeMode
Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

There is no glamorizing the life that many slaves in the US led.

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: LifeMode
Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

There is no glamorizing the life that many slaves in the US led.

My point is we keep discussing black US slavery but the form slavery that exist today is ignored and those conditions are worse in many ways. Not glamoring it at all. I know someone who was auditing a TV factory in Mexico several years ago. He told me the working conditions were appalling and their living conditions were even worse. They were using TV boxes scraps as roof shingles. In India, many places no trash service. The put it in a pile at the end of the street and burn it in their own neighborhoods.

originally posted by: roaland
He always felt bad about fighting the 1st battle of bull run on a Sunday. So to get around it, in his mind, he would pick another day during the week to be his Sunday. So if he knew he was going on a hard march under orders that would make him work on a Sunday, he would pick a day after that to be his Sunday and he wouldn't do anything but read his bible.

Chancellorsville was when he got shot. it was after he rolled up the Federal's flank. Lee was highly outnumbered and thanks to Jackson, he was able to push them back. Jackson's last words were "let us rest under the shade of the tree."

I have found surprisingly little actual military
Strategy..

Like hanniables double envelopment type stuff.

The things I have found focus on the man and his idiocencrecies.

You look on any top 10 type list that goes on past 10 lol and he is there, but haven't yet heard a story that showed he deserved to be, per say.

I know that if you die before you have reached your possible potential after winninf a lot. Your ledgend tends to get a little overhyped, but definitely not making that claim about him specifically.

originally posted by: intrptr

Christianity has misinterpreted slavery too, getting it from the verses somewhere implying that, ...in 'Heaven', those that are first shall be last, i.e., reversed role sort of thing.

There are other verses used to 'justify' slavery. Not really calling it slavery, but thats the rub. Many churchians have developed a stylized view: You can serve me now or serve me in the afterlife.

Bible Hub search result

Well considering that Christianity and its followers spent 1800 years saying ithe bible does validate slavery and only the last 200 saying it doesn't, I would have to beg to disagree.

originally posted by: Lysergic
Wot a religious nutter.

I find this OP fascinating and then read your ignorant comment. At least you are consistent.

originally posted by: LifeMode

originally posted by: zosimov

originally posted by: LifeMode
Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

There is no glamorizing the life that many slaves in the US led.

My point is we keep discussing black US slavery but the form slavery that exist today is ignored and those conditions are worse in many ways. Not glamoring it at all. I know someone who was auditing a TV factory in Mexico several years ago. He told me the working conditions were appalling and their living conditions were even worse. They were using TV boxes scraps as roof shingles. In India, many places no trash service. The put it in a pile at the end of the street and burn it in their own neighborhoods.

No they do not..

Your comparing best case, to worse case...

Not worst case to worse case and best case to best case...


Does a worst case scenario "labor slave" with the worst case boss, have it worse than your worst case African slave with a truely sick overlord??



Doubtful....


I'm sure the Kings valued skilled slaves were treated better than your average middle class family, and you had every possibility in between.

Hell I'll even bet your average southern family snickered at and look down on the more brutal owners. But that still didn't stop the sickos from doing whatever they wanted.

In any error...

The Greeks, romans, Persians doesn't matter. You allow slavery and don't hold people accountable for their actions and you have atrocities..

It was not that different than the way we do pet ownership today...except you were not jailed for mistreating your slaves.

a reply to: JoshuaCox
the jews? lmfao.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: intrptr

Christianity has misinterpreted slavery too, getting it from the verses somewhere implying that, ...in 'Heaven', those that are first shall be last, i.e., reversed role sort of thing.

There are other verses used to 'justify' slavery. Not really calling it slavery, but thats the rub. Many churchians have developed a stylized view: You can serve me now or serve me in the afterlife.

Bible Hub search result

Well considering that Christianity and its followers spent 1800 years saying the bible does validate slavery and only the last 200 saying it doesn't, I would have to beg to disagree.

But we continue to slave millions of Latinos here, abroad and other countries as well.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

He may not have invented any new or revolutionary strategies but the strategies and tactics that he did use were executed to perfection to prevail against an enemy who often had greater numbers.

At harpers ferry he accomplished a triple envelopment that required hauling cannons to the peak of 1,000 foot mountains that had no passable roads.
To be fair to Jackson it should be noted that while Jackson was fighting under the command of General Lee,General Lee retained responsibility for all of the strategic planning.General Lee did all the strategic planning and then allowed his commanders to decide for themselves what tactics they would use to successfully accomplish his strategic plan.

It was general Lee himself who devised the triple envelopment strategy,and subsequent surrender of 14,000 union troops, at harpers ferry and left Jackson to decide on the tactics he would use to accomplish it.

In the battles of port republic/cross keys Jackson successfully thwarted an attempted double envelopment by a larger union force.He did that by withdrawing his army to a strategic natural choke point which prevented the two attacking forces from being able to unite or reinforce each other. He left a small force to delay/detain one of the enemy forces while the bulk of his army defeated the other force.His army then turned around and went back to defeat the force that was being detain while attempting to envelop him.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: intrptr

Christianity has misinterpreted slavery too, getting it from the verses somewhere implying that, ...in 'Heaven', those that are first shall be last, i.e., reversed role sort of thing.

There are other verses used to 'justify' slavery. Not really calling it slavery, but thats the rub. Many churchians have developed a stylized view: You can serve me now or serve me in the afterlife.

Bible Hub search result

Well considering that Christianity and its followers spent 1800 years saying the bible does validate slavery and only the last 200 saying it doesn't, I would have to beg to disagree.

But we continue to slave millions of Latinos here, abroad and other countries as well.

Not any more than everyone is a slave to capitalism in a world built on money...

Not at all to the level of previous generations

originally posted by: dantanna
a reply to: JoshuaCox
the jews? lmfao.

Historically the Jews were enslaved in Babylon and basically by the romans even if the Egypt stuff is a myth.

You could find no culture not enslaved by someone.

originally posted by: LifeMode
Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

I would thread lightly here in comparing the two, for instance do you know what braking a buck is??..branding?? seasoning?? your off springs or significant other sold away at a person's whim??..your toddler used as gator bait??..I am sure that a Malaysian factory worker is grotesquely abused , but please don't get it twisted you don't want to live life as a chattel.

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: LifeMode
Slavery today is worse. The quality of life of a cotton plantation slave compared to a Malaysian factory worker. I would take the plantation slave job if I had to choose. Better quality food, better homes, Sunday off along with some holidays. It would be an interesting comparison and likely very shocking.

I would thread lightly here in comparing the two, for instance do you know what braking a buck is??..branding?? seasoning?? your off springs or significant other sold away at a person's whim??..your toddler used as gator bait??..I am sure that a Malaysian factory worker is grotesquely abused , but please don't get it twisted you don't want to live life as a chattel.

There is no comparison with Roman/Persian/Greek/American slavery and the slumlords of the corporate and manufacturing world's.