Army Corp Of Engineers deny's permit and shuts down Pipeline!

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

What you describe is very wrong and not even remotely the same thing.

If I were compensated fairly and it was for something like a pipeline or power line, I'd have no issue with it since it's for the benefit of everyone.

Imagine if there were no way to put in say power lines because a single landowner could stop it? If you can't see the difference, we are at an impasse. You could keep coming up with unrelated cases where eminent domain is abused to counter me, which would lead nowhere since its a specious argument.

Also, if a poor person is paid more than their place is worth, enabling them to buy a better place they are not hurt, they instead are helped by it. But as I said, I only agree with that when it's something to do with critical infrastructure and energy is critical infrastructure that serves us all.

If the road and power line to your place ran across the neighbors land on both sides and they said no and you could never drive to your land or be connected to the power line as a result, would that be right? Specious argument right?

What I find disturbing about your argument is that you're taking for granted that another oil pipeline is NECESSARY or needed at all.

This is corporate greed plain and simple.

Actually they are needed to start fazing out the older ones already in use. Part of the deal with this new pipeline is it replaces an older one along that route. if we continue to attempt to use pipelines that have been in use for decades we are going to have more and more problems. The US infrastructure is in need of attention. As far as imminent domain these farmers has whats called easements. In fact every property does for utilities and in cities sidewalks. Because the utilities use these easements they pay the land owner but you have to realize by law that is not there property. If you build a fence on an easement the state can require its removal for example just went through that myself. I had to move a fence 4 feet on one side mind you its 4 and a half acres so it was expensive. however I do actually receive money from NES since they have underground lines for the housing development behind me. Now I so which I could have denied that since I don't want to deal with the traffic from the new housing development but guess what I cant stop it either.

This sounds like great news. I wonder why this company went to all that trouble for something that would have lost them millions of dollars had they gone ahead with it. I wonder how much money they wasted having their security out there all that time, strong-arming the protectors. What was the point, if it was a money pit anyway? Curious. Hopefully, this is the end of it.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

What you describe is very wrong and not even remotely the same thing.

If I were compensated fairly and it was for something like a pipeline or power line, I'd have no issue with it since it's for the benefit of everyone.

Imagine if there were no way to put in say power lines because a single landowner could stop it? If you can't see the difference, we are at an impasse. You could keep coming up with unrelated cases where eminent domain is abused to counter me, which would lead nowhere since its a specious argument.

Also, if a poor person is paid more than their place is worth, enabling them to buy a better place they are not hurt, they instead are helped by it. But as I said, I only agree with that when it's something to do with critical infrastructure and energy is critical infrastructure that serves us all.

If the road and power line to your place ran across the neighbors land on both sides and they said no and you could never drive to your land or be connected to the power line as a result, would that be right? Specious argument right?

What I find disturbing about your argument is that you're taking for granted that another oil pipeline is NECESSARY or needed at all.

This is corporate greed plain and simple.

Actually they are needed to start fazing out the older ones already in use. Part of the deal with this new pipeline is it replaces an older one along that route. if we continue to attempt to use pipelines that have been in use for decades we are going to have more and more problems. The US infrastructure is in need of attention. As far as imminent domain these farmers has whats called easements. In fact every property does for utilities and in cities sidewalks. Because the utilities use these easements they pay the land owner but you have to realize by law that is not there property. If you build a fence on an easement the state can require its removal for example just went through that myself. I had to move a fence 4 feet on one side mind you its 4 and a half acres so it was expensive. however I do actually receive money from NES since they have underground lines for the housing development behind me. Now I so which I could have denied that since I don't want to deal with the traffic from the new housing development but guess what I cant stop it either.

I'd be very interested in where you've seen that the DAPL Pipeline is a replacement for the 1982 existing one.
While I don't read trade specific news, in all I have read about this new line I've never seen that referenced even once.

I agree as a nation our infrastructure is beginning to fail.
In my area we have more bridges going critical and crumbling, aside from the fact our roads suck and it's been a running joke for more than 20 years we have the only highway that has been under continual "repair" since it opened.

Back to infrastructure.
In this case the oil to be transported was being shipped from that Baaken Oil fields and pre-sold going overseas.
There was no benefit to us as a nation. When this project was started it was boom times in ND, the oil field has since suffered reduced output as a resource. So in essence the company is flogging a dead horse. Along with the new pipeline in west Texas planned to sell oil to Mexico we aren't reaping ANY benefit as a nation.

Had this gone forward under the auspices of reducing our oil dependency on Saudia Arabia or other places we buy from I'd of been much more supportive.

Dunno if you read my link several pages back about the ongoing leak near Olean NY, but the company plainly states it's been leaking for a YEAR. A freaking YEAR but because it's classes as a "3" type leak it's of no importance to them.
The Whathefu@kery of that boggles the mind.

My heat is on 64 to conserve and they are literally pissing away natural gas.

Also back to Standing Rock.

www.youtube.com...

This is a statement by the Tribal Leader of Standing Rock, David Archambault II. I can't imbed video. However he asks that everyone go home and leave the protest/protector camps. His reasoning is it will take considerable time for the Army Corp of Engineers to perform the environmental studies and it's winter so the conditions are fairly dangerous to anyone staying.

The look on my face was priceless as I watched this last night.
I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I KNEW IT!!!!!!

The minute I saw the Sheriff of Morton county's press release on Saturday. He was walking backwards his position on fining anyone bringing in supplies and stating if the protestor/protectors didn't attempt to cross the bridge law enforcement equally would give them physical room to protest peacefully. During this press conference a guy from the National Guard was standing behind him....

Right then....I knew someone somewhere had made a phone call and overridden both the sheriffs dept AND the Governor of ND. The guy from the national guard was there to ensure things went according to "script".

Then suddenly on Sunday the Corp of Engineers made the permit denial public.

This statement from Archambault is just the quid pro quo.

No one here besides me has been talking about the OPTICS of our own Military Veterans coming to stand down local law enforcement. I think this is precedent setting and one our government was trying to avoid. I can't believe it didn't set off multiple red flags with everyone here. From preppers to liberals.

This was precident setting because for the first time since colonial days a militia was deployed to protect the common man against our own "governmental interests"/law enforcement. Can't have THAT type of civil disobedience spreading can we? If anyone noticed they nipped it in the bud before there could be video of that broadcast on national TV.

I don't believe it for a moment. They are only deflecting, peoples attention will wain, some of the protesters will leave...

then, on a rainy holiday weekend in the dead of night when nobody cares anymore, the gubment will pounce.

originally posted by: intrptr

I don't believe it for a moment. They are only deflecting, peoples attention will wain, some of the protesters will leave...

then, on a rainy holiday weekend in the dead of night when nobody cares anymore, the gubment will pounce.

I think they definitely need to take a page from this book.

And make sure they don't beat them to the punch.

originally posted by: intrptr

I don't believe it for a moment. They are only deflecting, peoples attention will wain, some of the protesters will leave...

then, on a rainy holiday weekend in the dead of night when nobody cares anymore, the gubment will pounce.

That's what I'm afraid of.

At 5:30 PM on Friday, December 23rd, the Corp of Engineers will suddenly announce that it has changed its mind, and the pipeline is back on.

Seriously, Obama has stood by and let the pipeline advance this whole time. I don't see him moving to block it now. This is a ploy.

Again, altho Sunday was about celebration it's back to the grind.
Energy Transfer Partners is working on other legs of the pipeline and everyone in Iowa just took a hosing. The most relevant part of the article I'm quoting is that in it's 2015 annual report they admit they DO NOT have necessary funds to clean up any future spills nor do they have the cash to clean up existing ones.

This is how it works folks. Companies build things just because they can and there is NO PLANNING, NO THOUGHT on how to maintain what they build over the long haul. We have to stop accepting this as a legitimate business practice.
It's irresponsible and leaves us all paying for their folly.

Landowners in Iowa are suing the Iowa Utilities Board for granting the permit, in part because they argue that the Board didn't have the authority to take the land through eminent domain. One of the other issues at stake: The Utilities Board required the parent companies behind the pipeline prove that they have the funds to clean up a spill, and Sunoco Logistics hasn't provided that proof. The lawsuit goes to court on December 15.

In its 2015 annual report, Energy Transfer Partners, the main company behind the pipeline, says that it may not be able to pay for cleanup even for spills in pipelines that are already in use: "Accordingly, we cannot assure you that our current reserves are adequate to cover all future liabilities, even for currently known contamination."

The fate of the Dakota Access Pipeline is still unclear. On Sunday, the Army Corps of Engineers announced that it wouldn't grant an easement needed to let the pipeline pass under Lake Oahe near the Standing Rock Sioux reservation—and that alternative paths need environmental impact statements, which take time to prepare. The delays, and other financial pressures, could possibly jeopardize the project. The Standing Rock tribe also still has a pending lawsuit. But even if the route bypasses Standing Rock, the larger project may still continue, and oil could eventually start flowing through the new pipeline in Iowa.

www.fastcoexist.com...

The whole project is shady to begin with. They are running a pipeline down to the gulf so they can load it on tankers and sell it elsewhere. What do we benefit from that I wonder? The idea of running a pipeline anywhere near a river is insane. What about continued security for the pipeline after it's built?? I think all of that is legit questions. Someone with a Makita drill and a strike anywhere match could set half the Mid US on fire.

a reply to: sean
I hear you.

I live in the country and of course nature can not be left alone in this society of ours, so some wealthy businessman saw the potential, not the beauty, and bought up a lot of the agricultural land to build a whole new city out here in the boonies.

Of course the first thing they wanted to do is destroy our water supply. They had plans on bringing in gas station, which we fought tooth and nail because we rely on well water. Underground gas storage and well water do not mix. A disaster waiting to happen.

The solution by our grand masters? Forced connection to city water!