Thoughts on the UFO Subject in general

originally posted by: Jungian

Cooper was shot dead. He was one I used to listen to alot as he was an avid speaker on UFO's, Majestic 12, Area 51.

Until one day he released a document, where he had discovered another, more solid truth; The UFO phenomena we all know since Roswell, is a hoax.

I don't see Roswell as being a hoax at all. Especially since Cooper was the first I've heard from in disclosing an alien presence. Check this out, he blew the lid off of that topic years ago.



If anything it reinforces the fact that the so called Roswell myth may be indeed true. They are here and have been for a very long time.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Jungian

Cooper was shot dead. He was one I used to listen to alot as he was an avid speaker on UFO's, Majestic 12, Area 51.

Until one day he released a document, where he had discovered another, more solid truth; The UFO phenomena we all know since Roswell, is a hoax.

I don't see Roswell as being a hoax at all. Especially since Cooper was the first I've heard from in disclosing an alien presence. Check this out, he blew the lid off of that topic years ago.


If anything it reinforces the fact that the so called Roswell myth may be indeed true. They are here and have been for a very long time.

Did you not read my first post at all? Jesus fkn Christ. Please read instead of posting an unrelevant video. Read the document Cooper wrote regarding the entire subject of UFO's being a hoax.
What YOU see as a hoax or not doesnt concern me at all. My go to guy was William Cooper. But when he is shot dead 2 weeks after finding a truth he was not supposed to, says enough for me. After all his years of talking about MJ12, he had a big change of heart, like none other. He found a more solid and believeable truth. And is now dead for it. And you choose to ignore that fact?
Yea, something does not add up.

The following is fact. It is not a theory it is a genuine conspiracy. I witnessed the Top Secret/Majic documents from which this information is excerpted while a member of the United States Navy attached to the Intelligence Briefing Team of Admiral Bernard Clarey, Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet. I certify that the following information is true and correct to the best of my memory and the research that I have accomplished. I will swear to it in any court of Law. I can produce the names of approximately 38 U.S. Navy officers and enlisted men who witnessed these documents while in the service of their country. I can produce the names of approximately 8 people involved in the UFO deception who have witnessed these documents. I can produce the names of approximately 80 others whom I suspect have witnessed these same documents. I will not reveal the names except in a court of Law that is willing to prosecute the People and organizations involved in the conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States of America to bring about a socialist totalitarian world government. For many years I sincerely believed that an extraterrestrial threat existed and that it was the most important driving force behind world events. I was wrong and for that I most deeply and humbly apologize. Many years ago I had access to a set of documents that I eventually realized was the plan for the destruction of the united States of America and the formation of a socialist totalitarian world government. The plan was contained within a set of Top Secret documents with the title "MAJESTYTWELVE". There was no space between majesty and twelve. The term honored the planned placement of ultimate power in a body of wise men who are destined to rule the world as the disciples of a Messiah front man. This Messiah will serve as a buffer between the wise men and the sheople. I discovered these documents between 1970 and 1973 while I was a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet. MAJESTYTWELVE was in a tall thin font style... imagine the title squeezed together between the M and E with all of the letters stretched vertically. The key to access was a Top Secret (Q) (SCI) security clearance with the compartmentalization of "MAJIC" (not magic). I cannot remember the exact font except that it is a tall thin version of San Serif... the exact name escapes me after all these years... but it is a key to access. The plan outlined the formation of a world totalitarian socialist government. It is to be ruled by a behind-the-scenes council of wise men. A so-called benevolent dictator, will be presented as the Messiah. The Constitution for the united States of America and its Bill of Rights will be scrapped. A parliamentary form of government will take its place. All military forces and individuals are to be disarmed except for an internal police force which will carry only the minimum weapons needed to maintain internal order.

And what kind of world have we seen come into view ever since JFK was assassinated?
Now, what do you get from that? Its William Cooper's last document.

originally posted by: nOraKat
a reply to: Jungian

Can you name any other shows that takes up any current UFO phenomenas seriously?

NASA's Unexplained Files - the earlier episodes. I don't know about later ones..

Yea I member those. There is also The Secret NASA Transmissions: The Smoking Gun www.imdb.com...
But those films never really made me 100% believe "they" are here or anything. Theres just a lot of stuff orbiting our planet which we dont know anyhing about. If you ask me, The Abyss by James Cameron aint that far fetched. We basically have just scanned 5% of the Earth's ocean floor. Maybe someday some will find an abandoned alien base. As Im sure they got fed up by being here, if they ever were here.

I want to start my reply to you with simple personal opinion that is a general feeling. Anyone who is staunchly ANYTHING scares me. Not scares me emotionally, but worrys me as to what anyone who lives with or near them can portend, as they tend to be sycophants and often become very irate when only THEIR views are challenged.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: repairguyt


I see. You are another person waking up to the more than obvious but can't reconcile what you have learned to what seems to be the actual situation. That puzzlement is legion on ATS and elsewhere as "consensus reality" blocks an accurate view and understanding of the entire situation. And, of course, there are forces at work that are aimed to prevent you from gaining an accurate view.

Nothing is preventing anyone at all from gleaning the necessary information to be exactly informed. Nothing is being "blocked" in fact, there is information overload on the subject. What "forces"?

And that situation is relatively simple in form:
ETs exist in the galaxy if not universe with the ability to appear here either by physical or other means.
They have appeared at this time in our development because we split the atom, as it used to be said, and they are concerned for our wild ways of treating each other that obviously means that we are inherently dangerous to all living things.

Unless, of course, you believe in the actual science behind the big bang theory, then there is nothing to suggest that life on other planets evolved any more rapidly than it has here on Earth. Also, no verifiable evidence to suggest that they aren't as equally trapped by their own limitations as are we. People tend to always believe that sentient life on other worlds HAVE to be more advanced than we are, I suggest that maybe they are not.

The remarkable conveyances some of those beings used immediately captured the attention of most governments and the quest was on to replicate them. By scientific observation and crash recoveries, the US if not other nations, eventually re-engineered a domestic version of the traditional UFO that "flies" by reducing its mass to zero. The US has had for years the notorious "black triangles" that are the greatest war weapon ever created. This shadow force dominates over any other fighting force on earth. In addition, those craft have allowed the US to by-pass the conventional methods of brute rocketry to explore the Moon and beyond at ease.

What conveyances? Sources?

Also, traditional UFO's?! What the heck is a "traditional" UFO? A bird is a UFO if it flew past you and you didn't know what it was, or a rock, or a baseball, or a balloon. I'll spare you the mental trauma of Higgs fields and why a mass reduction would only be possible at the event horizon, but suffice it to say that physically, it's not even a remote possibility.

Notorious "black triangles" ... sigh ... please do share with us your verifiable sources for such nonsense.

Anybody that thinks, for the sake of convenience, that alien UFOs don't exist is fooling themselves, whistling in the dark, wanting the powerlessness to go away so that they can yet remain masters of their own destiny.

Orrrrr....use critical thinking to remain both objective and disseminate the bad data from the valuable data thus drawing intelligent conclusions, and not some hyperbole.

a reply to: alphabetaone

Thank you for a very concise post.

As a Jungian, I was happy to discover later in life Carl Gustav Jung wrote a book regarding his own thoughts on the UFO myth, back in 1959. One of my best reads concerning the myth.

"In the threatening situation of the world today, when people are beginning to see that everything is at stake, the projection-creating fantasy soars beyond the realm of earthly organizations and powers into the heavens, into interstellar space, where the rulers of human fate, the gods, once had their abode in the planets.... Even people who would never have thought that a religious problem could be a serious matter that concerned them personally are beginning to ask themselves fundamental questions. Under these circumstances it would not be at all surprising if those sections of the community who ask themselves nothing were visited by `visions,' by a widespread myth seriously believed in by some and rejected as absurd by others."--C. G. Jung, in Flying Saucers Jung's primary concern in Flying Saucers is not with the reality or unreality of UFOs but with their psychic aspect. Rather than speculate about their possible nature and extraterrestrial origin as alleged spacecraft, he asks what it may signify that these phenomena, whether real or imagined, are seen in such numbers just at a time when humankind is menaced as never before in history. The UFOs represent, in Jung's phrase, "a modern myth."

Flying Saucers : A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies

a reply to: repairguyt

Repairguy good question (and one that I've pondered myself) - still lots of documents unaccounted for and I thought 'UFO lawyer' Peter Gersten made some interesting points in this vid.










a reply to: Jungian

Two more relevant quotes from Jung.

"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs show signs of intelligent guidance, by quasi-human pilots... the authorities in possession of important information should not hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as possible."
"Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects," Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 1, No. 2, 1955.




"It remains an established fact, supported by numerous observations, that UFOs have not only been seen visually but have also been picked up on the radar screen and have left traces on the photographic plate."
"A Fresh Look at Flying Saucers," Time, August 4, 1967.

link

originally posted by: repairguyt
a reply to: Aliensun


Further, where are the real investigative reporters that dig for answers and do not let go of a story until they find the truth. . But when dealing with this subject, there seems to be no investigative reporters interested in the actual truth. Others that are not actual journalist have taken on that role to try and get to the truth.

Au Contraire my Friend. Check out George Knapp. Definitely an investigative journo who takes it seriously

"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs show signs of intelligent guidance, by quasi-human pilots... the authorities in possession of important information should not hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as possible."
"Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects," Flying Saucer Review, Vol. 1, No. 2, 1955.

Thats a quote from him before he wrote the book, before he had collected most of his thoughts on the subject. The second quote in the Time Magazine article is NOT by Jung. But it did state his thoughts:

One persuasive theory about saucers is that they are real only in the mind and that they correspond to a deep human need. Contemporary saucer sightings, wrote Carl Gustav Jung in a book published before his death in 1961, are an outgrowth of the troubled international situation and gradual erosion among Christians of belief in a God who can intervene to save man from his own folly. Hoping for some redeeming, supernatural event, said Jung, man may have turned to a God image: the UFO. The substitution, Jung suggested, is not difficult to understand. "God in his omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is a totality symbol par excellence, something round, complete and perfect."

originally posted by: Jungian
a reply to: repairguyt

You didnt read my first post. Or did you ignore it becasue I called out the silly Ancient Aliens show? I used to believe. Until Cooper was shot dead, as he was one I used to listen to avidly on the radio back in the 90's. Until he discovered the real truth. And now is dead for it. They let him be while he was talking about UFOs, MJ12. Then as he shifted over to the New World Order, it only took 2 weeks and he was a dead man. This did get me thinking. Clearly. For how long have you been a believer? Are you just here to get people who support your beliefs? You dont want to read anything which might "oppose" your views? Sad.

I still enjoy the idea that they came here, many millennia ago and interacted with the humanoids who were walking planet earth, besides just humans.

And your title of the thread is about UFO beliefs "In general"

Which made me interested, cause I wanted to share my side of the story. But it seems you ONLY prefer "true" believers. Even more sad.

Hi Jungian, I apologize that I didn't realize that you posted twice. I was kind of pressed for time this morning and breezed through the posts. You are correct that the post is about "beliefs concerning UFO phenomena in general", and that is what I am interested in for this post. I'm not only interested in the opinions of "true" believers. I myself am on the fence (leaning heavily towards believing). I created this post to get all points of view about my questions.

Thanks for the reply.

One persuasive theory about saucers is that they are real only in the mind and that they correspond to a deep human need. Contemporary saucer sightings, wrote Carl Gustav Jung in a book published before his death in 1961, are an outgrowth of the troubled international situation and gradual erosion among Christians of belief in a God who can intervene to save man from his own folly. Hoping for some redeeming, supernatural event, said Jung, man may have turned to a God image: the UFO. The substitution, Jung suggested, is not difficult to understand. "God in his omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is a totality symbol par excellence, something round, complete and perfect."

Thats what I lean towards the most. Being a Jungian, it makes perfect sense. If I was 20 years younger I wouldnt even have cared for what Jungs thoughts were. But I woke up. In the end its just first world problems. More stuff for believers to worry about.

a reply to: Bloatis123

Hi Bloatis123. Thanks for the reply. I have watched several George Knapp recent vids concerning Bob Lazar, and yes he is the exception to the rule. He definitely digs deep to get to the truth, but I haven't found others (except maybe Linda Howe) in the media business that go that far. Back in the 50's and 60's investigative reporters were far more common than they are today. And they had clout in that they had a proven track record of honesty, and reporting the truth after uncovering it. True - that it is a risky business (telling the truth about a given topic), but I assume that in those days there were more people with enough grit to do it.

a reply to: Jungian

Yes he seemed pretty conflicted about the subject, have you seen his letter that was up for auction?

www.openculture.com...


Link for previous quotes

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


Cheers

a reply to: karl 12

Thanks a lot Karl for the reply. This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Why are the documents classified by the government entities, and requires a lawsuit to get the documents, if there is nothing to this subject? It defies logic. As a tax paying citizen myself, I want the government to release all relative documents concerning UFO's (especially if they maintain that there is absolutely nothing to it). My point is - PROVE IT. Release the documents.

a reply to: Dan00

Yup.

There are people who know, for whatever reason, that there are no UFOs per se, but rather four phenomena which are CONFUSED with "UFOs":

1) Misidentification of natural things (like the planet venus).

2) Misidentification of manmade things (aircraft, satellites)

3) Out and out deception (youtube, Ancient Aliens, cold war and post cold war alphabet agency deception).

4) A generally subtle, substrate-independent, sentient-meme-like intelligence, which interacts with human consciousness and sometimes materializes energy/matter effects, which are perceived as real, solid and nuts and bolts, but is something else completely.

But there are no UFOs like people want there to be, at least not yet. We will probably build them someday and terrorize some primitive culture with them someday.

Kev

a reply to: repairguyt

Yes I'm pretty sure you're correct in that assumption of less people with the grit, and journalistic integrity these days. I think that also speaks to the dumbing down of culture, and especially journalism in general now. One thing that interests me is whether how this has come about is deliberate and if so to what end. If that is the case then there may well be implications for the subject which you are asking a question about, and which many people come here seeking understanding. If not, then it's just an interesting sociological phenomenon. Much like UFO's, again....

originally posted by: karl 12
a reply to: Jungian

Yes he seemed pretty conflicted about the subject, have you seen his letter that was up for auction?

www.openculture.com...


Cheers

Again, this is all before he managed to put all this thoughts into the book. Dont think I havent read these. But his book is something you should read instead. Carl Jung was not very conflicted at all. One of the biggest misconceptions of him in the mainstream.

originally posted by: Jungian

One persuasive theory about saucers is that they are real only in the mind and that they correspond to a deep human need. Contemporary saucer sightings, wrote Carl Gustav Jung in a book published before his death in 1961, are an outgrowth of the troubled international situation and gradual erosion among Christians of belief in a God who can intervene to save man from his own folly. Hoping for some redeeming, supernatural event, said Jung, man may have turned to a God image: the UFO. The substitution, Jung suggested, is not difficult to understand. "God in his omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is a totality symbol par excellence, something round, complete and perfect."

Thats what I lean towards the most. Being a Jungian, it makes perfect sense. If I was 20 years younger I wouldnt even have cared for what Jungs thoughts were. But I woke up. In the end its just first world problems. More stuff for believers to worry about.

While I completely respect your point of view, I believe that there is enough factual evidence (government documents and witness testimony by government officials) that the subject requires in-depth study by the scientific community. Dr. J. Allen Hynek changed his opinion after Blue Book, and he has made very convincing arguments for scientific research of this subject. His experience was such that he thought the subject is worthy of study by the scientific community, and I do as well.

originally posted by: repairguyt

originally posted by: Jungian

One persuasive theory about saucers is that they are real only in the mind and that they correspond to a deep human need. Contemporary saucer sightings, wrote Carl Gustav Jung in a book published before his death in 1961, are an outgrowth of the troubled international situation and gradual erosion among Christians of belief in a God who can intervene to save man from his own folly. Hoping for some redeeming, supernatural event, said Jung, man may have turned to a God image: the UFO. The substitution, Jung suggested, is not difficult to understand. "God in his omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence is a totality symbol par excellence, something round, complete and perfect."

Thats what I lean towards the most. Being a Jungian, it makes perfect sense. If I was 20 years younger I wouldnt even have cared for what Jungs thoughts were. But I woke up. In the end its just first world problems. More stuff for believers to worry about.

While I completely respect your point of view, I believe that there is enough factual evidence (government documents and witness testimony by government officials) that the subject requires in-depth study by the scientific community. Dr. J. Allen Hynek changed his opinion after Blue Book, and he has made very convincing arguments for scientific research of this subject. His experience was such that he thought the subject is worthy of study by the scientific community, and I do as well.

If that is "proof" enough for you, then Im sorry for you. Eyewitness testimony? Documents?
Why not any PHYSICAL proof? You guys are just like religious people..but its fine. Believe what you want to. Im just glad Im out of that circlejerk.

To all current UFO believers;

One persuasive theory about saucers is that they are real only in the mind and that they correspond to a deep human need.

What you really need, is to go outside.

originally posted by: Bloatis123
a reply to: repairguyt

Yes I'm pretty sure you're correct in that assumption of less people with the grit, and journalistic integrity these days. I think that also speaks to the dumbing down of culture, and especially journalism in general now. One thing that interests me is whether how this has come about is deliberate and if so to what end. If that is the case then there may well be implications for the subject which you are asking a question about, and which many people come here seeking understanding. If not, then it's just an interesting sociological phenomenon. Much like UFO's, again....

An argument can be made that the "dumbing-down" is deliberate. I have read reports that at the Federal level they have started dictating to the states what will be on the final exams for K-12. This has forced the schools to teach to the exam (basically teaching students how to pass the exam) instead of teaching the things I learned in school. Michio Kaku has stated that the U. S. has the worst education system now. He also stated that the students that he teaches are, in recent years, all going back to their home countries. This is a sad state of affairs for the U. S.

You are correct about what this may imply. I know during roman times, the middle ages and later, the royalty preferred that the general population remained ignorant, and put forth policies that practically ensured that it stayed that way. An ignorant populous is easy to control, and easy to pacify.