UFO Watchdog owes Dr Jill Tartar an apology, because the moon CAN be mistaken as a UFO

Dr Jill Tartar, a now retired "alien hunter", once explained how under certain conditions, even the moon could be mistaken for a UFO. How did she know this? It happened to her for a short time. It was obvious from her description that it wouldn't happen under ordinary circumstances but would take special conditions, such as in her case clouds in the sky to prevent the entire moon from being seen, where part of the moon might be peeking through the clouds, thus not really looking like the moon so for a short time she was unable to identify the moon as the moon until the position of the clouds changed.

Apparently the folks at UFO watchdog didn't believe Dr. Tarter that the moon could be mistaken for a UFO, so they put her in their UFO "Hall of Shame", but I think the shame is in not recognizing that Dr. Tartar made a valid point. Take this 999 call where the witness reports the moon as a UFO which was moving toward him but has now stopped and is hovering over a nearby city (which should obviously rule out the moon since the moon can't do that), but he calls back 2 minutes later because like Jill Tarter, his misperception of the moon as a UFO only lasted a short while and he finally figured out it was the moon:

999 caller mistakes moon for UFO


There's more than just these anecdotes from Dr. Tartar and the 999 call.

The Moon as a UFO

Probably the best case histories for UFOs being identified comes from the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) lead investigator, Allan Hendry. His book, The UFO Handbook, should be required reading for all UFO investigators. The book is out of print but several copies are available in used book stores or ebay. Hendry's efforts to identify UFO reports are to be commended and they demonstrate how some of the most mundane events can be misperceived as UFOs. To me, his section on the moon was most interesting.

Hendry states he had twenty-two cases of misperceptions of the moon. Even police officers, who are often considered "trained and reliable observers", were not immune to this problem:

In case 100 police officers in separate cars were convinced that the setting moon was moving away from them at fantastic speed "while setting on Main street" at 3:25 AM. The police sped up to 60MPH to chase it, but to no avail. (Hendry 45)

After reading this, one has to really wonder about the claim that reliable observers could never misidentify the moon.

22 cases of the moon being identified as a UFO isn't a lot, but nobody including Jill Tartar ever said it happens a lot, just that it can happen and that ordinary objects can be mis-perceived under certain conditions.

There are even some photos of the moon as a UFO, and in this photo the moon appears along with another famous astronomical object often mistaken as a UFO, Venus:

Most interesting is how the article in The News-Palladium stated the photographer described the UFOs. According to the article, Deputy David Fitzpatrick inidcated that "the two objects he photographed gave off a brilliant yellow-white light in graceful swoops" (See). The photograph does not show any motion that indicates anything other than the motion one would expect from celestial objects. Again, we are presented with a professionally trained and reliable observer who can't seem to identify the moon and Venus or was trying to perpetrate a hoax. Compounding this error was the media, who could not see that this was a time exposure of Venus and the moon rising.

So the moon was said to make "graceful swoops" and many people take everything a witness says as reliable and would use such a statement to rule out the UFO being a celestial object which doesn't "swoop", it just appears to move slowly across the sky to a camera as seen in the photo. However, human vision can introduce apparent motion resulting from auto-kinesis which may be why the swooping motion was described, even though there was no such action, and the witness was probably telling the truth that they observed it but it was a known illusion (auto-kinesis).

I hope UFO Watchdog will realize their error in putting Jill Tartar in the UFO hall of shame and remove her name from that list, since apparently she was right that mistaking the moon for a UFO IS possible even if it doesn't happen that often. They even made this silly picture which doesn't attempt to recreate the conditions Dr Tartar described with clouds partially obscuring the moon, etc.

www.ufowatchdog.com...

Does anybody else think she had a valid point or do you agree with UFO Watchdog that nobody can mistake a UFO for the moon, in spite of evidence to the contrary?

In the right conditions, anyone can mistake any light in the sky for a UFO. Although it may sound silly at first to mistake the moon as a UFO and I understand UFO Watchdog's viewpoint on this, I gotta admit, the moon can look pretty weird with the right clouds and conditions.

There are tons of very silly sounding false UFO sightings. For example, a group of college-aged kids nearby mistook a street lamp for a UFO of sorts; there was heavy fog in the area and the orange tinted ball of light (the street lamp) was poking out of the fog layer which was at an elevation below them. It looked like a stand alone alien orb of energy or something. They were scared out of their minds for a moment until the fog began to clear, revealing the light's true identity.

The moon can be mistaken for a UFO in the right conditions, yes. Is it silly? Perhaps yes, but possible.

originally posted by: servovenford
In the right conditions, anyone can mistake any light in the sky for a UFO. Although it may sound silly at first to mistake the moon as a UFO and I understand UFO Watchdog's viewpoint on this, I gotta admit, the moon can look pretty weird with the right clouds and conditions.

A few weeks ago, a relatively young crescent Moon was near the horizon, with the bottom half obscured by a cloud. Being night (and, presumably, the cloud being dense), the cloud was as dark as the night sky, so all I could see was the top half of the crescent Moon in what appeared to be a clear night sky.

It was a bit startling at first, because my mind couldn't figure out what it was looking at. Granted, after a few seconds I figured out that I was looking at the Moon -- but it would not surprise me if other people out there would have seen this and never come to the realization that it was the Moon.

UFO Watchdog has been defunct for a decade. It is up for archival purposes only. There will be no retractions or changes. Yes, they made fun of a scientist who mistook the Moon for a UFO. Yes, it CAN happen. And it's still shameful, whether she is joined in her mis-perception by other people or not. It's not really the point that it CAN happen. the point is that a trained scientist allowed it to happen to her in a rather obscene way. It's comical. If you don't think so, fine.

There are quite a few people who believe their entries into the Hall of Shame are "unfair." These include Steven Greer, Stephen Bassett, Billy Meier, Ed Dames, Sean David Morton. Richard Hoagland, Karl Korff, and the Prophet Yahweh, along with dozens of others who are household names in the field of UFO charlatanism. Want to read about "Dr." Jonathan Reed, the fake MD who kept an alien in his refrigerator? How about Bob Lazar, who did NOT attend MIT or Cal Tech--ever, or how about another fake Dr--Dan Burisch. Most every entry was written by Royce Myers, an ex-cop, over many years. He finally burned out and left the field after doing some very good work on a number of cases.

His single short paragraph, along with the picture you reproduced, is here:

SETI scientist who claims UFOs don't exist. Her evidence for such a scientific conclusion? She claims to have attended a single UFO lecture and once mistook the moon for a UFO. How does an astronomer holding a chair at SETI mistake the moon for a UFO?! That says it all about her qualifications in determining UFOs don't exist. So much for being scientific and looking at the evidence. Jill, you should put your Ph.D back in whatever box of Cracker Jacks you got it from... SEE: SETI

Source

Nothing you've said here in your rather lengthy, and very late rebuttal, contradicts what Myers said in his original piece. Did Dr. Jill mistake the Moon for a UFO? Yes or No? The answer is "Yes." Surely this is a very minor issue unless she is your Mother or something.

Any in the sky can trick people into seeing something different and weird. But it would have to be under rare conditions, or the person viewing it having eyesight problems.

I have never been tricked by the moon. Even when partly clouded, fog, whatever. Never thought it was anything else.

But i can imagine some people, not many, but some being confused at what they are seeing. Esp if they have sight problems.

a reply to: schuyler

Wow!

an astronomer holding a chair at SETI mistakeing the moon for a ufo is quite embarrasseing

Or maybe she is overdoing using her debunkings beliefs and pretending she thought the moon was a ufo

Not the first time they have used and said stupid stuff to comfirm their beliefs

A pilot friend of mine confided it had happened to him.

He was flying a T-38 from Houston to Florida one night and was just climbing out through a low cloud deck. As he passed through it he spotted another unbroken deck somewhat above him. Them, off to his side, he saw a small white rectangle that grew larger and larger while maintaining 'angle off' -- the crucial clue to an imminent collision especially as it was getting closer.

He became worried, and prepared to execute a turn away.

Then the white rectangle suddenly began backing away, getting smaller and smaller until it finally vanished. He was really puzzled about what he had seen -- he didn't remember thinking 'UFO', but he admitted he might as well have.

Then he rose high enough to clear the second deck, and right off at the same viewing angle was the moon, somewhat past full. He had been seeing a horizontal slice of it through the sandwiched cloud decks, as he rose, cutting the slice across the top, the middle. and then the bottom.

originally posted by: JimOberg
A pilot friend of mine confided it had happened to him.

He was flying a T-38 from Houston to Florida one night and was just climbing out through a low cloud deck. As he passed through it he spotted another unbroken deck somewhat above him. Them, off to his side, he saw a small white rectangle that grew larger and larger while maintaining 'angle off' -- the crucial clue to an imminent collision especially as it was getting closer.

He became worried, and prepared to execute a turn away.

Then the white rectangle suddenly began backing away, getting smaller and smaller until it finally vanished. He was really puzzled about what he had seen -- he didn't remember thinking 'UFO', but he admitted he might as well have.

Then he rose high enough to clear the second deck, and right off at the same viewing angle was the moon, somewhat past full. He had been seeing a horizontal slice of it through the sandwiched cloud decks, as he rose, cutting the slice across the top, the middle. and then the bottom.

I can understand in rare occansions this could hsppen , but i would be suprised if none of these people figured out it was the moon. I just find it hard to believe.

a reply to: Jay-morris


Look at it the other way how IDIOTS mistake everyday objects/birds/bugs/planes on video and pictures as UFO's because right from the start that's what they want it to be

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Jay-morris


Look at it the other way how IDIOTS mistake everyday objects/birds/bugs/planes on video and pictures as UFO's because right from the start that's what they want it to be

Actually, I think a better point is that everyone is human, and everyone can make a human mistake of misidentifying something. It doesn't matter if the person is a police officer, a pilot, a doctor, a plumber, or a ditch-digger -- they can all make misidentifications.

Granted, pilots in general may be less inclined to making misidentifications, only because they may have experienced seeing lots of things in the sky -- but that's only true in general. Just because pilots as a whole may be less likely to misidentify the Moon as a UFO does not mean that every pilot would never commit such a misidentification.

The same goes for an bug that zips across a video. Some people don't understand that a bug can look to be moving at unbelievable speeds on a video, but be only appearing to be moving that fast only because the bug is close to the camera. People don't need to be "idiots" to not realize this; they could be anyone who just never considered why a bug flying close to a camera would look so fast.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: Jay-morris


Look at it the other way how IDIOTS mistake everyday objects/birds/bugs/planes on video and pictures as UFO's because right from the start that's what they want it to be

Yes, people mistake all sorts for ufos, but to mistake the moon for a ufo, well, it would have to be rare situations, and even then, most people would figure out its the moon.

The problem is, someone could see a ufo, see its shape and movement, but as soon as certain people learn that it was in the same direction as the moon, that will be the explanation for the.

So its also a cop out

originally posted by: schuyler
UFO Watchdog has been defunct for a decade. It is up for archival purposes only. There will be no retractions or changes.

The decade part seems off because I joined ATS in 2009 and I remember visiting there after joining ATS, and then subsequently seeing a revision to the site some time later, could have been 2010 but don't remember exactly, but maybe it hasn't changed for the last 6 years, that's possible. I thought some of the descriptions said more info was forthcoming which seemed to not come so in that context your statement about the site not being updated would make sense.

There are quite a few people who believe their entries into the Hall of Shame are "unfair." These include Steven Greer, Stephen Bassett, Billy Meier, Ed Dames, Sean David Morton. Richard Hoagland, Karl Korff, and the Prophet Yahweh, along with dozens of others who are household names in the field of UFO charlatanism.

Maybe so but they all deserve to be there.

SETI scientist who claims UFOs don't exist. Her evidence for such a scientific conclusion? She claims to have attended a single UFO lecture and once mistook the moon for a UFO. How does an astronomer holding a chair at SETI mistake the moon for a UFO?! That says it all about her qualifications in determining UFOs don't exist. So much for being scientific and looking at the evidence. Jill, you should put your Ph.D back in whatever box of Cracker Jacks you got it from... SEE: SETI

Source

I tried to find the interview where she said that on youtube and couldn't find it. I'm sure I heard that interview, but unfortunately I can't remember an exact quote of what she said though I can say it would be unscientific of her to say UFOs don't exist and I don't think she said that, in fact her point about the moon was that it WAS a UFO to her for at least a short while so that would contradict the idea that UFOs don't exist since she said she saw one, briefly. While I didn't find the original interview where she discussed her moon/UFO sighting, I did find this interview which shows the type of language scientists such as her use about UFOs.

SETI's Dr. Jill Tarter confronted by UFO true believer

Nothing you've said here in your rather lengthy, and very late rebuttal, contradicts what Myers said in his original piece. Did Dr. Jill mistake the Moon for a UFO? Yes or No? The answer is "Yes."

I think you still don't get the point she was trying to make, but thanks for your lack of insight because maybe that helps me understand that Myers or whoever wrote that blurb doesn't get it either. When she didn't know what she was looking at, she didn't know she was mistaking the moon for a UFO, it WAS a UFO until she figured out what it was, and that was her point which you don't seem to get. This is true of the majority of UFO sightings is it not, that they are UFOs until we figure out what they are? I think few people would disagree that most (over 50%) turn out to be misperceptions of man-made objects or natural phenomena, and I've seen higher percentages cited but people like to argue about those so I hope everybody can agree it's over 50%.

As for the rebuttal being a decade late or more, the sources in my OP weren't available a decade ago, though had I been inclined I suppose I could have made the argument 5 years ago but I don't care if the apology or retraction is late. It wouldn't be as late as the apology of the Catholic church to Galileo over 350 years later, and I still appreciated that one.

However you don't have to agree with me to get a star for your post, your feedback is appreciated even if you don't agree about the retraction.

originally posted by: Jay-morris
I can understand in rare occansions this could hsppen , but i would be suprised if none of these people figured out it was the moon. I just find it hard to believe.

I tend to agree, but it depends. I remember an ATS member posting a UFO video his wife made while he was out of town and it was a short video, less than a minute long I think. It showed a light in the sky just sitting there. Replies to the thread asked what happened to it and why is the video so short, where did it go? In a case like that if you don't stick around long enough to see what happens to it, then it's a UFO, but I agree that if you stick around and keep watching it you should be able to figure out it's the moon sooner or later, the only exception being that if the light disappears because of more clouds rolling in and it "disappears", unless you use some kind of app to figure out where the moon was you may not realize it was the moon in that case. If the clouds block less of the moon instead of more then certainly everybody should be able to figure it out.

a reply to: JimOberg
Thanks for sharing that story. I too saw the moon through some clouds and couldn't tell it was the moon at first, because with the clouds partially blocking it, it didn't look like the moon at all, so I can identify with that pilot and Jill Tartar. That's part of my objection to the silly photo UFO watchdog posted of the unobscured moon, in contradiction to Dr. Tartar's description of the moon being partially obscured by clouds.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I remember a couple of UFO posts that turned out to be the Moon , one of them was the one you mentioned.
I still find it a head scratcher though.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I remember a couple of UFO posts that turned out to be the Moon , one of them was the one you mentioned.
I still find it a head scratcher though.

So that one turned out to be the moon? I guess it's a case in point then. What struck me about that case was she said something to the effect that the UFO was creeping her out which is why she didn't watch it very long, and as previously suggested I think the less time you spend looking at it the easier it is to make that mistake. In several examples it took some additional time or varying conditions to figure out the object was the moon.

The multiple witness sightings of the moon as a UFO are a head-scratcher too. You'd think with that many witnesses it would be more likely that they would figure out what it is.

Like others have said, I think any object in the sky can be mistaken for a UFO under certain circumstances. I myself posted a thread here several years ago because I had seen a UFO. It was soon identified and I felt quite a bit of shame at the time but I didn't post an intentional hoax so I really had no reason to feel that way.

I dont think I would have had the courage to call them back and tell them I had just seen the moon... pretty funny video.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
The multiple witness sightings of the moon as a UFO are a head-scratcher too. You'd think with that many witnesses it would be more likely that they would figure out what it is.

I may only have a layman's understanding of group dynamics/group psychology, but it seems to me that depending on the make-up of a group of eyewitnesses who all see something "weird" together, there is sometimes less critical thought going on by each individual, and instead a herd mentality of group though kicks in, where each member of the group conforms to what the group itself is thinking rather than using their individual critical thinking skills to come up with an idea that is counter to the group.

There is an effect in herd mentality called "decentralized decision-making" where a the authority for decision-making in a group gets passed to the group entity rather than having each person in the group make decisions and present those decisions to the group.

What I'm saying is that if the individuals in a group of witnesses who mistook the Moon for a UFO were instead alone rather than being in the group, some of those individuals may have figured out it was the Moon. However, the group mentality prevented that critical thought -- or prevented the individual who maybe had an inkling that the object was the Moon from saying something that would going against the "group thought".

Group mentality/mod mentality/herd mentality can be a powerful thing that often overshadows the mentality of the individuals in that group.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: schuyler
UFO Watchdog has been defunct for a decade. It is up for archival purposes only. There will be no retractions or changes.

The decade part seems off because I joined ATS in 2009 and I remember visiting there after joining ATS, and then subsequently seeing a revision to the site some time later, could have been 2010 but don't remember exactly, but maybe it hasn't changed for the last 6 years, that's possible. I thought some of the descriptions said more info was forthcoming which seemed to not come so in that context your statement about the site not being updated would make sense.

Yes, it's "possible." I'm the one who made those revisions. It had been defunct for several years. The Paracast cut a deal to update it and I was the one who did so. Because of various reasons we need not get into here that effort more or less failed and Royce took the site back and has kept it up for archival purposes. The blurb to which you take exception is and was a very minor entry, and though you accuse me of a "lack of insight," what Royce wrote is absolutely 100% correct. You're trying to explain it away with a "people are human" explanation. The greater point, which you missed, is that here we have a "scientist" who inserted herself into the UFO debate without really knowing anything at all about it. And based on her failed observation she went head and waxed eloquent on UFOs. She ought to have stayed at home. Lots of people may mistake the Moon for a UFO, but they don't go on to pretend to be an expert because of it.

So NO, there will be no "retraction" because there is quite literally nothing to retract. The small entry is and was absolutely correct. Further, you mirrored this woman's ignorance by assuming what UFO Watchdog is and was without knowing anything about it. Your reminisces about it's status and timeline of events are wrong. It kind of helps if you were actually there, as I was and you weren't.

originally posted by: schuyler
Your reminisces about it's status and timeline of events are wrong.

In what way? You said it was defunct for a decade and I said I thought it was changed after I joined ATS in 2009 and you said you made that change.