the black widdow

someone and i were talking about the YF-23 and they were telling me of a model that flew that had forward canards and was flying after the program was officially canned

then we got into the RAF base that housed a injured f-22/23 variant dual seater, i didn't know that either one of these were made to be dual seaters???

so i guess i will leave it to you guys to tell me if its all hog wash or there's more to it

a reply to: penroc3

They never put canards on the YF-23, or built a two seat F-22. It would have radically simplified pilot training if they had.

a reply to: Zaphod58

ugh so total hogwash then.

some things do sound a little to strange or convenient

a reply to: penroc3

Could be an aircraft developed around the same time as both the F-22 and YF-23 that had canards and sat two. But maybe wasn't intended to be an fighter but to fulfill the role of another valuable aircraft was retired nearly 20 years ago, and hasn't had a replacement, yet.

a reply to: penroc3

There have been more technology demonstrators and even prototypes flown in the last 40 years than people realize. That doesn't include operational aircraft kept dark.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I wonder if there is something like a Yukkikaze MAVE out there?

Seems strange to be here in the UK as theres more population density to be able to see it and possibly record it.

As Zaph say i'd imagine theres loads of stuff built possibly for a very specific role where the is no budget (cough)

I'm sure there is plenty of stuff out there from plenty of countries that we won't even know they exist for another hundred years or more.

a reply to: Maxatoria

Going to the UK actually opens some opportunities for testing, or even flying missions if it's an operational platform. Both LRS-B demonstrators were there during the fly off.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Now that I'm settled in my new hilly digs in TN I'm excited to get back into the aviation forum here.

Any chance we will be seeing anything go Grey or white from the dark any time soon? Someone in my new office knew some folks over at the RCO and down at SOCOM (contracting shops) and they said all they've ever heard was one would be shocked what tech is out there.

From what I hear as a contracting officer I wouldnt see nearly the big picture like some program managers do...

a reply to: SonOfThor

They're still working on a couple canceled programs, and letting a few details out about them. That's the only one I've heard about.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I am probably going to butcher this guys name but he is pretty relevant in the UFO/black project world, michael schratt seems to think it was some anti grav tech(granted apparently he said it was a two seater as well) but i dont think any one who was directly there at the time would be giving info to a guy that is on a speaking tour.

For normal people with very loose ties to the aviation world is it unheard of for AFOSI or DIA etc to plant little half truth and full on lies in the ears of regular people to get some dis info out there.

sometimes i wonder about things people tell me or drop bread crumbs to let along people on these speaking tours

a reply to: penroc3

It is possible some mature one off technology demonstrator for some project that subsequently got cancelled were testing over there. I'm sure they built a lot of aircraft around that time that had similar lines/shapes as the Raptor and Widow.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Did we ever hear whether the F-26 was just a typo or not in that officer's autobio?

a reply to: penroc3

What you are describing, penroc, is the NATF version of the Widow.

And, oh gawd, was it fugly.

www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com...

a reply to: anzha

It was the YF-24, and all they ever said was that it was a typo. They never said otherwise publicly that I heard.

a reply to: Zaphod58

ok. I thought I heard (publicly) the AF guy refused to say.

a reply to: anzha

He wouldn't. The person that typed up the bio said they made a mistake.

a reply to: anzha

ahh beauty is in the eye of the beholder lol


it is a very busy airframe. looks like the wings and chines were jammed together almost as a after thought

a reply to: penroc3

More Northrop NATF:

yf-23.net...

in contrast, Lockheed NATF:

yf-23.net...

I can't help lamenting that we ought to have had the F-23A for the USAF and the F-22C (NATF) for the USN just for the industrial base reasons. Though, I would worry about the interaction of the 5th gen fighter coatings and salt water. Salt water is surprisingly evil stuff.

a reply to: anzha

At the time of the F-22 they would have had to rain reskin the aircraft almost after every deployment. That was one of the huge problems when they did the navalized F-117. The corrosion to both skin and structure was estimated to be horrifying.