Multicultulerism and diversity...why ?

Ok. I'll skip ahead intro and all the usual disclaimer racial talk.

Being what I am...and lately...I feel leaning towards the conservative side...I was thinking about this immigration thing. But let's just firstly identify the term under which my assumptions are working on. When I say immigration...I'm mostly thinking about illegal immigration first, and second...islamic immigration. Those two might get intermingled during my thoughts.

Having that definition in mind...what's the pro argument for immigration...looking from a standpoint of a member of the native population of a country that's being emmigrated into ?

Beside the usual liberal "having compassion" argument ? how do WE the local people benefit from immigration ? Are there other reasons besides "compassion" to make us want to "desire" this...diversity...which is mostly today narrowed down to problems with islamic immigration, that's...at least somewhat different then what we're used to.

Why is diversity even good for a community ? Sure..you might argue that species/groups that dont change over time and adapt...die off....and you might be right on that one. But I think that nature of the change is what's important here. It's not just about accepting the "different"...it's about us...natives...adhering to its principles and its dogma...respecting it...staying silent to it. Is it good for us and how ?

Now, I realize the benefits of diversity...when looking from a macroscopic point of things...from a species standpoint. Nature is only concerned with species survival...not racial survival. In fact...races are born and die off...species maybe survive. The strongest survive. Those who procreate more..have a far better chance of overcoming the competing culture/race and survive/thrive...usually at the expense of the other. It's not how I like things to be...it's how they are in nature.


I dont even want to get into the idea of peaceful Islam...think of it what you will...but please explain to me..just one thing:

What do you...as a person that grew up in a western society with western values, have as an advantage...in adopting Islamic culture into your own communities ? What's the real upside in this policy for the natives...how do we benefit specifically concerning Islam ? or is it just about guilt ?

I'm really open to valid arguments.

thank you if participating.

I’m inclined to view multiculturalism in a negative light for a variety of reasons. Multiculturalism is essentially the promotion of multiple cultures and cultural groups within an area, such as a country. When considering what things multiculturalism provides to a nation, we might be tempted to point out various achievements such as inventions or scientific discoveries. These things however are not the result of culture or race, they are human accomplishments. We do not say “oh, we have developed this new medication only because of the cultural background and ethnicity of these scientists”. They were human beings first, and their human ability to discover or invent such things led to the creation or invention in question, not their culture or race. This human ability exists regardless of such things. The same idea can be applied to economy – were America to be entirely made of one particular group of people, we would not say “Oh, well since we have no Asian-Americans, we will not conduct international business with Asian countries”. Everything that we attribute to multiculturalism will exist without it as well.
What multiculturalism does do however is separate people into various groups. As human beings, we have a subconscious psychological desire to fit in to some sort of group, whether it be a religion, political party, sports team, etc. Along with this desire is a subconscious psychological recognition of differences in others. Whether we are aware of it or not, we separate ourselves, and multiculturalism only serves to propagate this psychological phenomenon. As we are divided into groups which bicker and argue and debate one another on a national level, our national identity and national strength is weakened and degraded. Instead of being unified as a people and moving forward as one, multiculturalism forces us to compete for our respective ideas and positions. I don’t feel that multiculturalism benefits society. I think multiculturalism is actually an enemy of progress, cohesion and strength.

If a people want to come and assimilate into a culture I have no problem. I do have a problem with a people who say they are above a counties laws because their religious laws supersede the host county. I do have a problem with a stated purpose of out breeding the locals so they can take over and install their version of god's will... Also I like bacon and a good pork chop...

I live overseas and every month someone is shot or a bomb goes off by the so called Muslim extremist. Muslim and Extreme seem to go together rather handily in many countries.

The Expat community around here is growing every month as people are fleeing the problems caused by the rabid Muslim immigration into their birth countries.

There are many other instances but almost all are senseless ...
newsletter.thaivisa.com...
Car bomb injures 5 at a drum barrel pump in Pattani

PATTANI: -- Five persons were injured after a car bomb exploded at a drum barrel pump in Yaring district of Pattani province last night.

Last week a 2 year old was shot while being held in the mother's arms at a market.. I started to post some vids from different countries but why... The barn door was left open and all the animals have departed to greener pastures..

Crying over spilled milk is not going to fix anything... to late for a fix for many IMO... I feel sorry for many who have opened their doors and hearts to people who want to see them dead.. stupid IMO... Yep I am bias..... and as soon as you have friends beaten, raped, or killed you will be too. Let us hope you or your loved ones do not have to live through that.

Simple answer, guilt! And no it's no longer survival of the fittest. We support people that wouldn't a least from a technological stand point survive much past mud huts and stone tools.Then arn them to the hilt and stand back and watch.

Aside from helping an aging and less reproductive society maintain economic worth...

You get an abundance of micro-social benefits such as new languages, foods etc.

Now we look at the workplace.
Jobs need doing.
If the native community don't want to do it, or not enough can, you send for the best in the world.


Now let's look at another 2 aspects of this immigration...

It probably wouldn't be near as bad as you perceive it if western nations hadn't decimated the Middle East in crusades for Oil & Gas.


Finally, & importantly, you cannot legitimately claim to be the bastion of freedom and advertise yourself as the greatest of civilisation and expect people not to want to turn up at your door looking for some of that greatness.

It just doesn't make sense.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

It depends. If you look at India, Turkey, and the US you will see multiculturalism even through antiquity and those places offered tremendous innovation.

Human evolution was greatly influenced by multiculturalism in fact even admixing between species. One human from one region exchanges ideas from another and they increase knowledge of biology, using tools that perhaps were environmentally necessary in a certain region but useful in any, language, math etc.

Culture can stay the same for much longer without it but it has a certain stagnation.

I think your rejection is more the regressive left saying every culture and every aspect of that culture should be respected. Which obviously has some human rights questions attached. Do I have to respect female genital mutalation under the guise of multiculturalism. No way. But that doesn't mean other parts of the culture don't have value.

Might want to ask the native Americans about that. I have no idea how many are on this forum, but they are the only views worth listening to regarding this subject.

Nothing last forever.



My way of life will destroy your way of life.

a reply to: trollz

I think multiculturalism is actually an enemy of progress, cohesion and strength.

Cohesion and strength of a community...this is especially what I had in mind writing this thread. I agree...multiculturalism can not and will not ever strengthen a community..only introduce divide, which ultimately weakens it.

If, in a hypothetical scenario...UK were to be invaded by a real foreign military force...how many of the current population living there would rise up in arms the defend its country ? But that's just one example of where I see potential problems.

a reply to: 727Sky

Crying over spilled milk is not going to fix anything... to late for a fix for many IMO...

I wont get into details in this threads...I too feel it's too late for a "natural" fix. Whatever may come of it.

A lot of people believe that they have values or a culture to defend when most of the time they're just following along with what is being dictated to them in the material world. You wouldn't even know or understand what American culture is or was just by looking around. Someone would have to attempt to explain it to you first and aside from the law which dictates most of our actions, everyone's definition of "culture" will vary greatly.

This is why I dump my pride and default to individuality as culture, while operating under what is currently tolerated and what is not. The problem is when those who believe that they can define culture, try to impose it on someone else. Cultures mainly thrive on tiny islands and isolated regions and aside from history, everything else is mashed potatoes. The true prospect of freedom goes against everything that culture is. Unless freedom is your culture, it tends to become a prison for a lot of folks.

Some people are under the misguided assumption that all cultures are equal.

They are not.

Diversity is a multi-faceted concept. Some types of diversity are less problematic than others. The most damaging is forced diversity. When you are thrust into the midst of a slurry of elements that do not naturally combine it can get messy. If you have a comfortable life with your two dogs in the suburbs, how comfortable will you be when your new next door neighbors come from a culture that extols the joy of eating fresh dog meat? And when the new neighbors come from a culture that historically has sought to destroy your culture, how good are you going to feel about that block party next week? I was in elementary school in Chicago in the 60's when they started busing in students from inner city schools. Regardless of what history may tell you, it didn't go well in the classroom. In fact, I would go as far as to say it was a complete and absolute disaster.

The real problem with the liberal 'we accept everyone' attitude is that you are introducing foreign elements to a host organism without any knowledge of how they will interact. It could result in a wonderful symbiotic relationship, or, it could turn in to a cancer that destroys both. Cancer is a dangerous but stupid disease. It kills its host thereby killing itself.

You can enjoy, lets say the food or art, of another culture without importing the entire culture to your neighborhood. Many people enjoy the products imported from China. Does that mean we want a communist micro-nation across the street? Of course not. If they immigrate here we would expect them to abandon communism and embrace democracy. So what do you do with a culture that abhors anything western? Its nice to be open minded, but not to the point that your brains leak out...

a reply to: Hazardous1408

Aside from helping an aging and less reproductive society maintain economic worth...

There is a reason for less reproductive society. More educated society...less breeding like rabbits. It would eventually balance out to a sustainable number for the population in a given area and depending on the level of progress.

I'm not saying that's not the meme used to justify the trend...in that regard...you are right.

You get an abundance of micro-social benefits such as new languages, foods etc.

Granted...as a really small luxury favor...but isnt that the reason we travel the world ?

Now we look at the workplace. Jobs need doing. If the native community don't want to do it, or not enough can, you send for the best in the world.

if it were so...I wouldnt mind...but I'm talking about the recent migrant crisis. I think it is a valid judgement that overwhelming number of new arrived migrants dont intend to do jobs. Many...many came for the welfare. And problem is that we tolerate it...under the disguise of multiculturalism.

It probably wouldn't be near as bad as you perceive it if western nations hadn't decimated the Middle East in crusades for Oil & Gas.

I have nothing to counter here. Mostly guilty as charged. Though In my own defense...I never supported any meddling and was a fervent critic of the US/NATO meddling politics. Why should I suffer the same ? What can I do as a lonely conspiracy nut ? Protest ? what good does that do ?

Finally, & importantly, you cannot legitimately claim to be the bastion of freedom and advertise yourself as the greatest of civilisation and expect people not to want to turn up at your door looking for some of that greatness.

Indeed...it's just that I dont think we're the greatest.Nor do I think my country is the "bestest in the world". I'm a realist...it is what it is....but it's mine...and I love it.


But you're right...since it's advertised...it makes sense for people to show up at the door...though it doesnt mean they should have rights to change our society...and not for the better either. At least I dont see the benefit...as stated in the OP.

Is it multiculturalism or just another type of invasion?

a reply to: luthier

But that doesn't mean other parts of the culture don't have value.

exactly why I started this thread.

Please educate me. Which parts ?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I would say modern medicine has had a huge impact on population size but also reproductile habits. You don't need to have 12 children in China or India to keep 6 or 8 for the farm work. The farm work isn't the same and the birth survival rate is much higher.

Unfortunately catching up with reality for 8k year old cultures takes longer than the medicine.

a reply to: Hazardous1408

It probably wouldn't be near as bad as you perceive it if western nations hadn't decimated the Middle East in crusades for Oil & Gas.

People have been saying this for thirty years. Where is the oil? We supposedly fought multiple wars for it. Where is it? Did I miss it?

a reply to: spacedog1973

Might want to ask the native Americans about that. I have no idea how many are on this forum, but they are the only views worth listening to regarding this subject.

Absolutely. A prime example. Do they like what's left of their people ? I doubt it. There is inherent anger towards conquerors passed on through genes. And rightly so.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Hazardous1408

Where is it? Did I miss it?

China, err GYNA.