CIA, NSA ordered to reveal to judge whether they were involved in Occupy Philly surveillance

Responding to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by a lawyer for the demonstrators, U.S. District Judge Berle M. Schiller gave the agencies until early next year to submit a list of any records detailing the agencies' potential surveillance activities, along with a justification of why those documents should be withheld from public disclosure.

Civil rights lawyer Paul J. Hetznecker, who filed the lawsuit and the initial records request nearly two years ago, called even this early step a victory in an age when security agencies have been given wide latitude to withhold documents detailing their operations from public records requests. "It is important that this tool of transparency sheds light on the secrets of government," he said.

CIA, NSA ordered to reveal to judge whether they were involved in Occupy Philly surveillance

Well, this judge is trying to do what is right by ordering the release of any documents that are related to the surveillance of Occupy Philadelphia in 2011 before Edward Snowden confirmed to the world they spy on everyone. This stems from a lawsuit filed two years ago to determine just that. We will see what comes of it. Other than transparency though, not sure what they can gain from it.

The CIA deny's it ... sort of ....
The NSA says "if they exist, they are classified" .
The FBI basically release pages and pages of black bars. The judge is demanding to see the underacted versions to make a decision on whether they should go public.

Occupy is still alive it seems. GO Tea party??

I don't see what they plan to gain either. The NSA by definition is responsible for internal matters. The CIA is not supposed to operate domestically and will deny they are officially because of the charter. I know for a fact they do get involved domestically, but not watching some protest. What is the lawsuit for? Just to find out if Uncle Sam is watching?

a reply to: worldstarcountry

This indeed a break...though perhaps not a breakthrough as yet....
I sincerely hope to see more courageous judges rule in the peoples favour as we begin to tear down the walls which
these agencies hide behind....Their paranoia has warped our civilisation, as much as the black ops they sponsor...
The more we know, the less we will want them in our world....

a reply to: spirit_horse

That is precisely what the lawsuit if for, just to find out 'IF' .

And yet, Hetznecker can't say for sure whether the documents he seeks actually exist!

HA! Well, transparency is important. If they were watching Occupy, which was alot more peaceful than the post election turmoil, or BLM riots for that matter, I would hope they are watching these recent activities as well. Probably helping to coordinate it for all we know

a reply to: worldstarcountry

RE: the article....the judge will never be given unredacted files. The Executive Branch claims imminence over their record, effectively negating the judicial check on their behavior.

RE: your last line...Occupy and Tea Party tend to sit on opposite sides of the bus.

But something that it makes me think about: how the TEA party and Trump were both immediately labelled as racist in the media and by the DNC. Its their tired old tactic it appears.

Anyway, i hope for the best here. But plan for the worst: nothing at all other than frustration.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

thats pretty much what I am speculating... a whole lot of disappointment .

a reply to: spirit_horse

The CIA is not supposed to operate domestically and will deny they are officially because of the charter.

Where and what charter says that?

As they should be ordered to do so. Recall the Cleaveland OWS attempted bridge bombers? In an earlier on article:

"How FBI entrapment is inventing terrorists..."

The guy who convinced the plotters to blow up a big bridge, led them to the arms merchant, and drove the team to the bomb site was an FBI informant. The merchant was an FBI agent. The bomb, of course, was a dud. And the arrest was part of a pattern of entrapment by federal law enforcement since September 11, 2001, not of terrorist suspects, but of young men federal agents have had to talk into embracing violence in the first place. One of the Cleveland arrestees, Connor Stevens, complained to his sister of feeling "very pressured" by the guy who turned out to be an informant and was recorded in 2011 rejecting property destruction: "We're in it for the long haul and those kind of tactics just don't cut it," he said. "And it's actually harder to be non-violent than it is to do stuff like that." Though when Cleveland's NEWS Channel 5 broadcast that footage, they headlined it "Accused Bomb Plot Suspect Caught on Camera Talking Violence."

Source- RollingStone


IMO I believe a lot of the same is likely to happen with the current Anti trump protestors and including the ones who are not Anti Trump but are disgusted with what's going on and are approaching other politicians in protest(recent is on was Schumer). To say before another big movement catches on similar to OWS/1 percenters/against the bankers it's likely to be brought down before it focuses on more than the propped up "boogie man" Trump. Such as why the paid agitators have been brought in.


Good thing it's being ordered to be exposed but doesn't mean much will come out of it. Freedom of Information Acts?

a reply to: ColdWisdom

The Central Intelligence Agency, directly violating its charter, conducted a massive, illegal domestic intelligence operation during the Nixon Administration against the antiwar movement and other dissident groups in the United States according to well-placed Government sources.[6]

Source

I can't find a source online with the charter, but they are not supposed to spy domestically. The NSA is.

He admits in something of an "accidents will happen" fashion that the Agency violated its charter by infiltrating and reporting on the activity of groups of American citizens who were protesting the policies of Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon

" Watergate "undermined the consensus of trust in Washington which was a truer source of the Agency's strength than its legal charter...."

CIA Source

a reply to: spirit_horse

He admits in something of an "accidents will happen" fashion that the Agency violated its charter by infiltrating and reporting on the activity of groups of American citizens who were protesting the policies of Presidents Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon

So thats how my name came to the forefront....hmmmm. Have they "held a grudge" all these years ?

a reply to: spirit_horse

It seems to me that the example you provided with Watergate was a reference to the CIA being used by the President to target his opposition.

Although the CIA's legal authority to spy on Americans was very narrow, these investigative committees — chaired by Sen. Frank Church, Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, and Rep. Otis Pike — discovered that the CIA had engaged in a massive domestic spying project, "Operation CHAOS," which targeted anti-war activists and political dissenters. The committee reports also revealed that, for more than 20 years, the CIA had indiscriminately intercepted and opened hundreds of thousands of Americans' letters. In addition to documenting the intelligence agencies' extensive violations of the law, the Church Committee concluded that the constitutional system of checks and balances "has not adequately controlled intelligence activities."

www.aclu.org...

You know, even if records like that did exist -- they're the ones with them. That's like asking someone with a dash cam to cough up the footage of them hitting a parked car.

"Footage of me hitting that car? My camera records on a 24 hour loop so there's no footage...even if I *DID* hit that car, sorry".

All grass roots movements are infiltrated to some degree. Sometimes its just to judge the mood/temperament and evaluate if they're any kind of domestic threat. Sometimes there's an actual agenda. Sometimes its to take pics and take names, part of ongoing investigations.

Our intelligence agencies would be beyond incompetent if they weren't checking into things like occupy. Hell, at the very, very least to make sure they aren't infiltrated by foreign governments or sponsored by them......

Is the judge playing dumb or what? I thought it was common knowledge the alphabet agencies were surveilling us, all the time. And especially if you go in the street with others and carry signs.

theverge

Here is a link to the Executive Order (on the CIA website) that prohibits them from spying on US citizens domestically.

Central Intelligence Agency

Thia is also from the CIA:

By law, the CIA is specifically prohibited from collecting foreign intelligence concerning the domestic activities of US citizens. Its mission is to collect information related to foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence. By direction of the president in Executive Order 12333 of 1981 and in accordance with procedures approved by the Attorney General, the CIA is restricted in the collection of intelligence information directed against US citizens. Collection is allowed only for an authorized intelligence purpose; for example, if there is a reason to believe that an individual is involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. The CIA's procedures require senior approval for any such collection that is allowed, and, depending on the collection technique employed, the sanction of the Director of National Intelligence and Attorney General may be required. These restrictions on the CIA have been in effect since the 1970

CIA.gov