Passerby shoots, kills motorist assaulting deputy after traffic stop

Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Whether or not the perp had a weapon or not is not the point. You put your hands on a cop is justification enough for a deadly response

I don't think expert marksmanship is a requirement for concealed carry.

I am happy the officer is alive and well and I applaud what that brave bystander did to save the officer.[

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Well, let's see. Let me aim for the arm or let me aim for body mass. Oops missed the arm and shot the cat across the street. Try again. OOPs missed the arm again but the dog is dead. Geez people. You aim for the largest target (body mass) and you are less likely to miss. Perp didn't need a knife or gun. Bashing someone's head on asphalt will kill him just as dead.

Wouldn't ONE round have been sufficient to stop the beating?
But maybe not....
The Officer was obviously taken by surprise.....and let that be a lesson to everyone......
I recall Florida was one of the very first CCW states, and more crimes were stopped in the first year of the permits by civillians than by cops I heard....
The whole incident shows the supreme value of training, and vigilance.....
Its NOT gonna go down anything like you imagine....

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Whether or not the perp had a weapon or not is not the point. You put your hands on a cop is justification enough for a deadly response

I don't think expert marksmanship is a requirement for concealed carry.

I am happy the officer is alive and well and I applaud what that brave bystander did to save the officer.[

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Good Lord, and waste a perfectly good arm? Why not nick him in the ear and then shoot off a small part of his pinky finger? that would grow back and should be enough to stun the perp enough for him to stop beating the cop right? When I train with my weapon, that's how I usually aim.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Whether or not the perp had a weapon or not is not the point. You put your hands on a cop is justification enough for a deadly response

I don't think expert marksmanship is a requirement for concealed carry.

I am happy the officer is alive and well and I applaud what that brave bystander did to save the officer.[

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

He could have just stood by and let the cop die and the assailant would've came for him next. Honestly would YOU want to use hand to hand combat to help subdue a killer or just shoot him when you clearly see the killer has overpowered the officer?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Whether or not the perp had a weapon or not is not the point. You put your hands on a cop is justification enough for a deadly response

I don't think expert marksmanship is a requirement for concealed carry.

I am happy the officer is alive and well and I applaud what that brave bystander did to save the officer.[

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

the part where he stopped to help instead of driving past.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

Whether or not the perp had a weapon or not is not the point. You put your hands on a cop is justification enough for a deadly response

I don't think expert marksmanship is a requirement for concealed carry.

I am happy the officer is alive and well and I applaud what that brave bystander did to save the officer.[

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

the part where he stopped to help instead of driving past.

I know 99% of people who would/could face this situation would drive past or record a video to post on youtube instead of intervening in some way. Not promoting the idea of trying to be a hero but there is a lot of power in numbers.

originally posted by: uncommitted

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

Wow. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I'm trying to figure out what you are thinking.

The deputy chased the suspect onto an exit ramp, where a witness said the suspect got out of his car and assaulted his pursuer. 'SUICIDE BY COP' SURVIVOR THANKS POLICE Shanta Holditch told WZVN that the suspect pulled the deputy out of his car and "just kept beating him and beating him ... throwing him to the ground and punching him in all different directions."

We have at least one witness watching the officer getting beat, does nothing. Now we have this motorist sees the officer in trouble, orders the attacker to stop (bet you missed that part of the story) he doesn't, driver shoots attacker saving the officer and you don't see that as being brave? A total stranger stepping in to help someone in danger and you don't think that as brave?

a reply to: network dude
Wish I could give you a couple dozen stars.

originally posted by: skywatcher44
Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

I really hope this is a bad attempt at humor. A shot to the arm, you do realize that both arms are most likely moving? If he missed the arm, where would the round go, into the officer? into a bystander? The driver did the right thing, the only thing aimed for center of mass of the attacker and we got a live police officer able to go home to his family.

a reply to: skywatcher44

Why three shots and not One in the Arm ? The Perp didn't have a knife or a Gun ?

because this was real life not TV.
in real life a shot to the arm is very unlikely, unless you get close enough. then you risk being involved in a physical altercation that you might not survive.

when training with a firearm,it is usually taught that you aim at center mass. the largest part of the body and less likely to miss. if aiming at smaller parts you increase the chances of missing and hitting innocent people.

a reply to: uncommitted

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

would you have stopped and tried to beat the perpetrator into submission, are you that brave? it is a stupid move. you would risk the same happening to you.

he gave the perpetrator a warning that included the words or i'll shoot. the perpetrator choose poorly.

for most rational people, to kill someone takes a certain amount of courage. this man displayed that.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

If he was blitz attacked, it might be that the attack was so sudden and sustained, its first blows so effective, that the officer could literally not have responded to them at all. Sometimes the first blow can cloud the vision, create numbness in the fingers... given that American police officers are not in the main, trained very hard. When an assault victim sustains several blows to the head during a rapid and near constant physical attack, even a police officer will generally curl up. It takes years of constant combat training, hardening, physical conditioning and mental discipline, in order to be able to respond to a blitz attack effectively, especially if the first blows are solid enough to produce concussion of some sort.

Insisting the officer did not draw their weapon through fear of being chastised by the press is somewhat disingenuous for that reason.

a reply to: network dude

I'll second Chance321.

Some of you might find this interesting. I've had a Concealed Carry Permit since 1986 and had a certification as an Armed Guard for over 15 years. This article is right on the money.

monsterhunternation.com...

a reply to: JIMC5499

thanks, everyone should read this.

Only 1 person caused this scenario.
Only 1 person caused someone to shoot a gun.
Only 1 person forced this outcome.

I know if we had the ninja cops of England this criminal would have been subdued but since we dont this is how it played out.

I basically feel like if this criminal was someones brother, father or just having a bad day then they should have made different choices but because they didnt they paid the ultimate price with the consequences. Because every time Im having a bad day I go out and attack cops, people , whatever.

Has anymore info come out about the story?

originally posted by: Zimnydran
I agree, it is the right thing to do..... and I hope it is still the right thing to do when its a Trump voter getting beat by a SJW...... or when its a citizen getting beaten by a cop.

Color of your skin, the uniform you wear, the politics you believe in..... none of that should matter in a country where we are Americans before anything else...... and none of that should green light your ability to cause unduly harm to another

I wish it was always the "right" thing- but shoot a cop beating a citizen and you'll be very unlikely to survive long enough to see the inside of a cell.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: uncommitted

I'm curious, genuinely, what do you believe the bystander did that was brave? Did he try to apprehend the assailant in any way at all? It seems not, he decided to shoot him three times, killing him from a relative distance - please explain the bravery.

would you have stopped and tried to beat the perpetrator into submission, are you that brave? it is a stupid move. you would risk the same happening to you.

he gave the perpetrator a warning that included the words or i'll shoot. the perpetrator choose poorly.

for most rational people, to kill someone takes a certain amount of courage. this man displayed that.

I've had several responses, but you weren't rude so I'll respond to yours. The assailant appears not to have a gun or knife. The police man was not unconscious, and there is nothing I've read that implies the police man was at immediate risk of death. I merely asked why it should be considered brave to draw a gun on an (as far as we desktop judges on ATS know) unarmed man and shoot him three times. If he had made an attempt to push him away from the police man, or pull him away from the guy, but then had no recourse but to shoot him, then I would say calling him brave might be justified.

The fact that he stopped to me makes him more of a human being than someone who would watch and drive away. Would I have attempted to manually stop the assailant? I've stood between someone kicking the crap out of someone else when I was younger, but that doesn't mean I'd do it now or in any given scenario. I just think the fact that the guy shot first may have been the most appropriate action in this case, but that isn't bravery in and of itself, apart from the fact that you would never forget you took a life without knowing if in reality you actually saved one.

We can all have opinions of course.