Sarkozy: carbon tax on US goods if Trump scraps Paris climate pact

Note: Let me put this right out front, right now: I haven't actually given a ton of thought about carbon taxes myself. I am still learning about it and open to information and arguments from others about it. I am not a "climate change denier" either.

Okay, this story is blowing up right now around the internet on other places and I thought ATS might like a chance to talk about it. The story is from a French news source. The article starts:

Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy has proposed that Europe should impose a carbon tax on American imports if Donald Trump pulls the United States out of the Paris climate pact.

Now, he's just the former French President, but as I understand it he is going to be running for president again in the next election. He's still a political player in France, and his words still might carry some weight.

"Donald Trump has said – we’ll see if he keeps this promise – that he won’t respect the conclusions of the Paris climate agreement,” Sarkozy, who is a French presidential candidate told the TF1 television channel on Sunday.

I know that one of the reasons Trump would want to pull out of this is because he might believe we'd be at a disadvantage and the other countries would lie about their emissions. I would have thought there would be a way we could check that though? Anyway, China has been making gains in renewable energy. From Wikipedia:

China’s renewable energy sector is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. In 2015 China became world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, at 43 GW installed capacity.[1][2] China also led the world in the production and use of wind power and smart grid technologies, generating almost as much water, wind, and solar energy as all of France and Germany's power plants combined.

Wikipedia

The French french article goes on to quote Sarkozy:

“Well, I will demand that Europe put in place a carbon tax at its border, a tax of 1-3 per cent, for all products coming from the United States, if the United States doesn’t apply environmental rules that we are imposing on our companies,” he added.

Sarkozy, a frontrunner for the nomination of the centre-right Republicans party, is also in favour of forcing public authorities in Europe to use more products or materials made in Europe.

Would a 1-3% tax hurt America? Some say yes, some say no. Some say us being more competitive by skirting the rules the others have self-imposed makes us more competitive.

I heard a creative idea: What if we amended the deal and said that if America become solar and alternative energy dependent, America gets 4 times the carbon "credits" if done in 20 years? That might incentivize American industries to invest domestically into new technologies and put people to work on/in things like Tesla's "Gigafactory"? America could basically turn the entire script around and double down, daring the world to keep up?

You can read the article HERE, but there's not much more to it that I didn't quote.

I think if we start a tariff war it might snowball into all kinds of sanctions and taxes on US goods, and in return America would place import tariffs/taxes on foreign goods. The "little guy" that has his widgets made over seas would see prices go up on his goods abroad and lower sales. I'm afraid of a cascade effect. Instead of a depression in the USA, it might kick off a global-wide depression.

In a situation like that, only the largest multi-national corporations would be able to afford to stay in business. Companies like Walmart, Target ect. Which is ironic because they'd be the last game in town and benefit from this.

Its ironic, because these carbon taxes seem like a free-trade globalist thing, but with sanctions/import tariffs and taxes only the big globalist-funded corporations could afford to operate.

Dangerous game, smart negotiating or what?

a reply to: Kettu

empty threat!

Carbon tax is a tax on being alive! Do you really think that any government should be able to tax its people on living?

China is the leading manufactures of photovoltaic panels. Not the leading user. The Paris agreement gives China years of emitting carbon freely over top of so-called developed countries. Same thing with India.

Countries that have gone solar panel and wind energy over carbon energy are in full revolt over the price of energy. Germany, Australia, Ontario Canada.

Enough is enough. In Ontario, one quarter of the population is now experiencing difficulty in buying food, mostly due to energy prices.

Climate change policies are part of what got Trump into the whitehouse. Europe looks to be falling apart anyway so if France wants to tariff US goods, it may be going it alone. Climate change policies are really an global income re-distribution scheme. Developed countries pay undeveloped countries to stick with unstable energy sources, which keeps the poor population poor.

Tired of Control Freaks

Lets get one thing clear, every tax is passed on to the consumer so at the end of the day the middle class pays the price.

Just another tax = less money in the middle class's pocket, here in Australia we have pay on average 125 different taxes per year which is why we are one of the most expensive places to live.



We had a tax on certain drinks that were to stop binge drinking, it had no effect what so ever, Taxing something does not decrease consumption unless the tax is high enough that people cannot afford it.

Well, let France worry about France. If they want to impose tariffs on US imports, they can, but its not without consequences.

Im all for cleaner energy. Even if one doesnt believe global warming exists or is manmade, it still behooves us to take care of our environment the best we can. We do live here and we do breathe the air and drink the water.

But, in regards to carbon taxes, Taxes dont change pollution levels, just like the taxes at the gasoline pump dont make you quit driving. You still need to get from point a to point b, and will buy gas until there is a superior alternative. I think carbon taxes are just the globalist scheme to fund a new world government. Cant have a government without income. What better way than to have a global energy tax.

Impose tariffs on a country that doesn't produce anything.

Brilliant plan, Nick.

French taxation is, as I understand the matter, a byzantine maze where you lose half your paycheck at every turn.

Maybe the guy at least partially responsible for the matter should pipe down in the peanut gallery and keep his only solution for everything, more taxes, to himself.

What authority does he have to say this? He holds no public office, his party sure as hell isn't going to win next years election, so what is he doing?

Just an angry establishment hack venting his anger if you ask me.

The EU has about 2 years left of existence. An implementation of the Paris Climate accord is going to accelerate the destruction of the EU and the irreversible impairment of any European project. Civil war will ensue soon after.

The EU is a Napoleonic project that belongs to a world which doesn't exist anymore, and into the minds of political hacks without any moorings in reality. The end of the EU is upon us. Political desperados hanging tight to their chair, because as soon as they lose power, they will all hand on lamp posts around Europe.

Trump is right when he says Brussels is a 'hellhole' but it would be better to use Obama's favorite term to describe the place: a '#-show'.

Then the U.S. will just trade with Britain and laugh as the EU crumbles

originally posted by: NthOther

Impose tariffs on a country that doesn't produce anything.

France imports a large amount of goods from the United States, they are our 8th largest trading partner.

US industrial chemicals, aircraft and engines, electronic components, telecommunications, computer software, computers and peripherals, analytical and scientific instrumentation, medical instruments and supplies, broadcasting equipment, and programming and franchising are particularly attractive to French importers. Source

We could also withdraw military from Europe, and see if they are able to afford social programs at their current level and increased defense spending.

a reply to: Kettu

no thanks

not playing the pay a tax to be alive game

that was tried here with obamacare and it helped run those out of office that put it in action

a reply to: Kettu

The carbon-tax nonsense is just a way for nations to make money off of industry and nothing more.

This proposal by Sarkozy is further proof of that. All that a tax on imports from the U.S. would do is hurt their own citizens, because they would be the ones paying for more expensive goods to offset the tax.

Have fun with that, France.

Cool.

Pull our bases out of the EU and Middle East and stop funding NATO.