The Jefferson Bible: Inspirational work or heresy...

"The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the later years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine."

en.wikipedia.org...

"In an 1803 letter to Joseph Priestley, Jefferson stated that he conceived the idea of writing his view of the "Christian System" in a conversation with Dr. Benjamin Rush during 1798–99. He proposes beginning with a review of the morals of the ancient philosophers, moving on to the "deism and ethics of the Jews," and concluding with the "principles of a pure deism" taught by Jesus, "omitting the question of his deity." Jefferson explains that he does not have the time, and urges the task on Priestley as the person best equipped to accomplish the task"

"Jefferson wrote that “Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God.” He called the writers of the New Testament “ignorant, unlettered men” who produced “superstitions, fanaticisms, and fabrications.” He called the Apostle Paul the “first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.” He dismissed the concept of the Trinity as “mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” He believed that the clergy used religion as a “mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves” and that “in every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.” And he wrote in a letter to John Adams that “the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

"Therefore, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth begins with an account of Jesus’s birth without references to angels (at that time), genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from his collection."

"Rejecting the resurrection of Jesus, the work ends with the words: "Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed." "

Jefferson was a metaphysical naturalist. "Metaphysical naturalism, also called ontological naturalism, philosophical naturalism, and scientific materialism is a worldview, which holds that there is nothing but natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind studied by the natural sciences. That is, those required to understand our physical environment by mathematical modelling. In contrast, methodological naturalism is an assumption of naturalism as a methodology of science, for which metaphysical naturalism provides only one possible ontological foundation. Broadly, the corresponding theological perspective is religious naturalism or spiritual naturalism. More specifically, metaphysical naturalism rejects the supernatural concepts and explanations that are part of many religions."

deism - belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

I don't think Jefferson was a born-again type Christian.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Easy.

Jesus is the Son Of God. This "Jefferson Bible" denounces the entire message of the "Yeshua Ha Mashiach". The entire purpose of his sacrifice and the message of salvation. It is just as false as the Gnosticism and Islam.

a reply to: infolurker

Please come down off your high and mighty horse.

Jesus is the Son Of God.

Everyone has the power to become children of God. That was his message, not the patriarchal crap mens societies been slinging since the dark ages.

SHHHHHH!!!! Not too loud, all the people who swear off of Our Founding Fathers based this country off Christian values will have a heart attack. Jefferson was one of our greatest presidents, and like many of our founding fathers was as you said a Deist.

As for the book, call it what it is . . . a philosophical tome, nothing more nothing less.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: infolurker

Please come down off your high and mighty horse.

Jesus is the Son Of God.

Everyone has the power to become children of God. That was his message, not the patriarchal crap mens societies been slinging since the dark ages.

No.

Nobody comes to the father but through him.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: dfnj2015

Easy.

Jesus is the Son Of God. This "Jefferson Bible" denounces the entire message of the "Yeshua Ha Mashiach". The entire purpose of his sacrifice and the message of salvation. It is just as false as the Gnosticism and Islam.

The disciples wrote "the entire purpose of his sacrifice and message of salvation". That is Jefferson's main point. And it cannot be "false" because it is opinion.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: infolurker

Please come down off your high and mighty horse.

Jesus is the Son Of God.

Everyone has the power to become children of God. That was his message, not the patriarchal crap mens societies been slinging since the dark ages.

No.

Nobody comes to the father but through him.

So say the disciples. We do not know for sure that is what Jesus was saying.

originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: infolurker

Please come down off your high and mighty horse.

Jesus is the Son Of God.

Everyone has the power to become children of God. That was his message, not the patriarchal crap mens societies been slinging since the dark ages.

No.

Nobody comes to the father but through him.

So say the disciples. We do not know for sure that is what Jesus was saying.

originally posted by: JDeLattre89
SHHHHHH!!!! Not too loud, all the people who swear off of Our Founding Fathers based this country off Christian values will have a heart attack. Jefferson was one of our greatest presidents, and like many of our founding fathers was as you said a Deist.

As for the book, call it what it is . . . a philosophical tome, nothing more nothing less.

Yeah, lot's of heart attacks if they would accept reality.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: dfnj2015

Easy.

Jesus is the Son Of God. This "Jefferson Bible" denounces the entire message of the "Yeshua Ha Mashiach". The entire purpose of his sacrifice and the message of salvation. It is just as false as the Gnosticism and Islam.

That's what makes it so interesting. He obviously thought very deeply about it. And Jefferson was probably a much better thinker than any of us on this forum.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
"The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the later years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine."

en.wikipedia.org...

"In an 1803 letter to Joseph Priestley, Jefferson stated that he conceived the idea of writing his view of the "Christian System" in a conversation with Dr. Benjamin Rush during 1798–99. He proposes beginning with a review of the morals of the ancient philosophers, moving on to the "deism and ethics of the Jews," and concluding with the "principles of a pure deism" taught by Jesus, "omitting the question of his deity." Jefferson explains that he does not have the time, and urges the task on Priestley as the person best equipped to accomplish the task"

"Jefferson wrote that “Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God.” He called the writers of the New Testament “ignorant, unlettered men” who produced “superstitions, fanaticisms, and fabrications.” He called the Apostle Paul the “first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.” He dismissed the concept of the Trinity as “mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” He believed that the clergy used religion as a “mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves” and that “in every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.” And he wrote in a letter to John Adams that “the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

"Therefore, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth begins with an account of Jesus’s birth without references to angels (at that time), genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from his collection."

"Rejecting the resurrection of Jesus, the work ends with the words: "Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed." "

Jefferson was a metaphysical naturalist. "Metaphysical naturalism, also called ontological naturalism, philosophical naturalism, and scientific materialism is a worldview, which holds that there is nothing but natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind studied by the natural sciences. That is, those required to understand our physical environment by mathematical modelling. In contrast, methodological naturalism is an assumption of naturalism as a methodology of science, for which metaphysical naturalism provides only one possible ontological foundation. Broadly, the corresponding theological perspective is religious naturalism or spiritual naturalism. More specifically, metaphysical naturalism rejects the supernatural concepts and explanations that are part of many religions."

deism - belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind.

I don't think Jefferson was a born-again type Christian.

Imagine a newspaper with no articles, only advertisements.

Imagine a Bible without the supernatural.

Not heretical, simply a waste of time.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I don't think Jefferson was a born-again type Christian.

Jefferson was a spoiled youngster who inherited daddy's 5,000 acres and 52 slaves. Married into more money and wound up with 600 slaves and more land. When you realize that only about 5 % of Americans owned slaves, you can then see that this ding bat lawyer was one of the greatest slave owners in American history. With that type of background I can understand why he would sit around cutting out sections of bibles and pasting what he wanted to accept into another ledger. The guy was a rich nut just like we have today with nothing better to do than steal from others. Being a president means nothing to God or me.

Thomas Jefferson said:

"Jesus was the greatest moral teacher in history." AND:

"Paul was the first person to corrupt the teachings of Jesus."

So he took out the miracles and cut out every word Jesus spoke, for personal use.

Besides being a slave owner, rather, if not for being a slave owner, I'd admire the man.

On the topic of Jesus vs. Paul though, I personally agree and despise Paul, admire Jesus.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians."

I believe Ghandi said this because of missionaries being such a problem in India, they are not liked there, and they tolerate diversity. Christians are just the worst people, threatening people with eternal damnation for not accepting Jesus as God.

Jesus didn't even say he was a god or God, not once.

He denied it, so the Orthodoxy is the true heresy.

Ironically.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: dfnj2015

I don't think Jefferson was a born-again type Christian.

Jefferson was a spoiled youngster who inherited daddy's 5,000 acres and 52 slaves. Married into more money and wound up with 600 slaves and more land. When you realize that only about 5 % of Americans owned slaves, you can then see that this ding bat lawyer was one of the greatest slave owners in American history. With that type of background I can understand why he would sit around cutting out sections of bibles and pasting what he wanted to accept into another ledger. The guy was a rich nut just like we have today with nothing better to do than steal from others. Being a president means nothing to God or me.

Other than being a slave owner, despicable, I agree.

But in all honesty Jefferson was a very educated man and simply admired what Jesus taught and recognized that Paul corrupted his teachings and the Church made up myths about him.

That's his prerogative, being a slave owner doesn't make him uneducated, just a bad person.

Paul supported slavery and demanded slaves be obedient to their masters as to Christ and the Lord "Not as men and women."

Go ahead and try saying he never said that so I can, as usual, correct you and show you something you didn't know.

Like I did with the Golden Calf and the contents of the Arc of the Covenant, which you thought was the not yet written Torah!!!

You didn't even know that Moses made them consume the Calf and thought I was making it up and then said John outranked Peter.

I don't think you have any right to talk about people who value Jesus teachings and understand that Paul was a false prophet, you pretend like you are a scholar but don't know the most known of stories.

Are you just on here to vent frustration? Because I see your messages tend to be angry, I wonder if you realize that unless someone agrees with you, you insult them like calling me a simple minded Muslim and ignorant because I had the audacity to correct you, know more about the Bible than you and am Muslim.

Don't get mad, learn.

a reply to: Malocchio

Text"Paul was the first person to corrupt the teachings of Jesus."

Not true at all. Simply your own Islamic opinion.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I don't think Jefferson was a born-again type Christian.

No, he was not, which is one of the reasons I like him.

a reply to: Malocchio

But in all honesty Jefferson was a very educated man and simply admired what Jesus taught and recognized that Paul corrupted his teachings and the Church made up myths about him.

Please give your sources. It is common practice to try and give sources unless they are your opinion. Nevertheless what you spiel is not true.

Quote
Jefferson wrote that “Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God.” He called the writers of the New Testament “ignorant, unlettered men” who produced “superstitions, fanaticisms, and fabrications.” He called the Apostle Paul the “first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.”
Source - en.wikipedia.org...
Unquote

Jesus claimed Himself as the Son of God and in fact did mean to impose Himself on mankind. A lie by Jefferson.
Source - John 3:16 -- Not in the Quran.

Is it no wonder you admire one who thinks the same as you think?


Paul was the greatest messenger to the Gentiles and the Jews. Paul was ordained by Jesus Himself.
Source - Acts_9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" Not in the Quran.

a reply to: Malocchio

Text"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians."

You had best watch your back for admiring the Christ Jesus. Your friends will have your head one day for that statement.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Malocchio

Text"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians."

You had best watch your back for admiring the Christ Jesus. Your friends will have your head one day for that statement.

The only person interested in head chopping is you, I live in America and nobody I know has ever chopped off anyone's head.

Pretty ignorant statement.

Are you that far removed from reality that you don't know Jesus is the Messiah in Islam?

So what on earth would my Muslim friends have a problem with?

My reverence for a Holy Prophet?

You are a very angry person but it is not my anger so enjoy your angry life of religious bigotry due to a lack of knowledge of your own religion.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Malocchio

Text"Paul was the first person to corrupt the teachings of Jesus."

Not true at all. Simply your own Islamic opinion.

Actually before it was my opinion it was Jefferson's, didn't you read the quote?

Jefferson wasn't a Muslim, as far as I know.

And I knew this prior to joining Islam so that is not a factor. I was happy when I learned Paul is considered a false prophet in Islam because I agree, but my opinions are always mine, I don't borrow opinions I examine information and decide for myself.

The Christian mindset that every thought is a result of one's religion is because that is what YOUR religion does.

Meanwhile nobody has ever told me what to believe. I am more than capable of educating myself.

Angry man.